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Jesus said worship God in Spirit and in Truth. The written word becomes the Living Word when breathed on by the Spirit and that is why Jesus was able to fend off the Devil and convert many to Himself by saying, It is written----- often times. The Spirit quickens the written word for those who seek the Truth.
My advice to the world is, never belittle the written word, it is your weapon of warfare against spiritual wickness when quickened by the Spirit. It is written, "I put My word above My name." says the Lord. You can take up the name of the Lord on your lips all you want but if you do not have His word hidden in your heart and live by it then you are taking the name of the Lord in vain.
The problem comes when people see the Bible as the literal utterance of God rather than fifty-odd books written by people who had a real experience with the divine. That is the spirit that moves the various writers of the Bible.
If you believe that every syllable of the Bible is the literal word of God, then you run into real problems -- Namely that the Lord was in need of a good proofreader. Type in the words Biblical Contradictions into Google and it's pretty easy to start finding huge holes in the text. Obviously, if God is perfect mind and the author of the Bible he would have not committed some rather indefensible errors. Heck, just a quick comparison of the Synoptic Gospels show that those books don't even agree on key moments in Christ's life, as in who says what, does what, and when it happens. For example, if Matthew's version of Christ's baptism is the accurate depiction of events, it means that the other versions are inaccurate.
Finally, I would argue that the need for the Bible to be the literal Word Of God actually demonstrates less faith, not more. For it is really the need for proof.
The modern Laodicean church does not like Authority. God has ordained a chain of command - God > Christ > Man > Woman. The issue is rank not value. The man will be held responsible for his role as the head. The man is to have the final authority on choices.
This is God's law not mans.
1 Timothy 2:12-14
King James Version (KJV)
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
So sure woman can teach about God, but it's the man's responsibility what she is teaching is correct.
So, what you are saying is that any man is higher in rank, regardless of what he is, in God's sight than any woman?
A male murderer is of higher rank in God's sight, than the saintly woman that he killed?
If one of the deacons in our church is a stupid, wife beating jerk, that steals the offerings, the women in the church are supposed to overlook this and follow his teachings?
And it's all because God allowed Eve to be tempted. Did He not know? Or did He allowed it because God wanted women to always be second class to men. He could have prevented Eve from taking that apple, couldn't he?
The problem comes when people see the Bible as the literal utterance of God rather than fifty-odd books written by people who had a real experience with the divine. That is the spirit that moves the various writers of the Bible.
If you believe that every syllable of the Bible is the literal word of God, then you run into real problems -- Namely that the Lord was in need of a good proofreader. Type in the words Biblical Contradictions into Google and it's pretty easy to start finding huge holes in the text. Obviously, if God is perfect mind and the author of the Bible he would have not committed some rather indefensible errors. Heck, just a quick comparison of the Synoptic Gospels show that those books don't even agree on key moments in Christ's life, as in who says what, does what, and when it happens. For example, if Matthew's version of Christ's baptism is the accurate depiction of events, it means that the other versions are inaccurate.
Finally, I would argue that the need for the Bible to be the literal Word Of God actually demonstrates less faith, not more. For it is really the need for proof.
Checked out "Biblical Contradictions" as you said and I didn't find any contridictions only misunderstandings on the interpreters part. Your in much company with those who are trying to defeat the faith of many. Enjoy the company and laugh it up but only for a season.
Originally Posted by pcamps Can you give me a verse that proves beyond a shadow of doubt that that the Spirit of God put the NT bible together ?.
Dear pcamps, the above was asked to answer my question on which verse in the Bible is errant.
The above question does not really answer my question but I'll at least do you the honor of answering yours even if you won't oblige me the same courtesy:
The holy spirit directed Paul to have his writings circulated:
Col_4:16 And whenever the epistle should be read to you, cause that it
should be read in the Laodicean ecclesia also, and that you also may be
reading that out of Laodicea."
Marcion was the first one that we know of, besides Paul, to put together all these circular letters we call the Word of God.
Paul may have been the first for he told Timothy to:
2Ti_4:13 When you come, bring the traveling cloak which I left in Troas
with Carpus, and the scrolls, especially the vellums."
I would imagine these scrolls and vellums were very precious and were at the very least, the Old Testament which was put together.
Since Christ already told us about what was written in the law and the prophets and Psalms which He said all testify concerning Him, we knew they had already a compendium of the Sacred Scriptures in His day. Surely you are not suggesting Beelzebub put together the Scriptures?
So, men, led by the holy spirit of God and Christ wrote the Scriptures and put the Scriptures together. Thus we can say the spirit of God had them preserve these writings for future generations.
Can you give me a verse in the New Testament which is errant?
Eusebius can you give me one verse in the New Testament that proves that the New Testament is inerrant ?.
I vaguely remember telling you a while ago that I did not read the scripture like a history book,I mean what good does it do believing in the Red Sea parting, the earth being flooded, Sodom and gomorrah being burnt to the ground ?, how does believing whether they were literal occurrences or not, inspire faith ?. What is important,is the spiritual meaning of them in regards to our own individual lives. Finding Noah's Ark tomorrow or the Ark of the Covenant would not change anything for me, I am convinced of who God IS, who I AM,and that the I AM is in me, and I AM led by that conviction of I AM, if Moses and all the other patriarchs could, how much more can we who know God as our Father ?.
Checked out "Biblical Contradictions" as you said and I didn't find any contridictions only misunderstandings on the interpreters part. Your in much company with those who are trying to defeat the faith of many. Enjoy the company and laugh it up but only for a season.
Ah. Interpreters. In other words, interpreters of that God has allegedly scribbled out. Interpreters who didn't actually assemble the Bible until 250 years later -- the same span of years between 2012 and 1762. Has it occurred to you that even among disparate manuscripts of the same passages, there are differences?
What's more, the very fact that you cannot separate a literal approach to the Bible to belief in God and Christ says a great deal. I mean, run through the Synoptic Gospels and you do see glaring contradictions between the same events. If God were indeed the author of the New Testament, rather than apostles committing to paper what they had witnessed, wouldn't there be a single, coherent narrative?
Nope. My faith is quite strong, thanks. What's more, my faith is such that pulling one syllable out of the Bible doesn't destroy it. Meanwhile, the literalists have their entire universe turned upside down if even one letter is not accurate, the spiritual equivalent of Jenga, if you will.
Dear pcamps, the above was asked to answer my question on which verse in the Bible is errant.
The above question does not really answer my question but I'll at least do you the honor of answering yours even if you won't oblige me the same courtesy:
The holy spirit directed Paul to have his writings circulated:
Col_4:16 And whenever the epistle should be read to you, cause that it
should be read in the Laodicean ecclesia also, and that you also may be
reading that out of Laodicea."
Marcion was the first one that we know of, besides Paul, to put together all these circular letters we call the Word of God.
Paul may have been the first for he told Timothy to:
2Ti_4:13 When you come, bring the traveling cloak which I left in Troas
with Carpus, and the scrolls, especially the vellums."
I would imagine these scrolls and vellums were very precious and were at the very least, the Old Testament which was put together.
Since Christ already told us about what was written in the law and the prophets and Psalms which He said all testify concerning Him, we knew they had already a compendium of the Sacred Scriptures in His day. Surely you are not suggesting Beelzebub put together the Scriptures?
So, men, led by the holy spirit of God and Christ wrote the Scriptures and put the Scriptures together. Thus we can say the spirit of God had them preserve these writings for future generations.
Eusebius . Yes men are led by the Holy Spirit, but these same men are not without fault, i have yet to meet or read of someone who as the whole revelation of God apart from Jesus Christ Himself. Paul's writing were never intended to put us right doctrinally, but to reveal the Living Christ in us.
Tell me what do you gain by being doctrinally right ?
Knowing Christ in you the source of all things that pertains to Life and Godliness abounds above and beyond anything that being doctrinally correct can do for you.
It is obvious from reading all the threads on this forum, we trust the bible over Christ in us, and the only possible reason for this is that we have failed the test that Paul told us to test ourselves with, which is 'do you know Jesus Christ is in you ?", saying the bible says he is in me is the wrong answer. The right answer is "Yes I do" period.
1TIM 4:13 "Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
1TIM 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in you, which was given you by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
1TIM 4:15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
1TIM 4:16 Take heed unto yourself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this you shall both save yourself, and them that hear you."
Besides the very good works that speaks louder than words as to what a Christian is there is also the need to describe and produce faith by the oral and written word anointed of the Spirit to produce faith in the genuine listeners.
Doctrine is the description of what it is to be a Christian or else why does anybody come on this forum with words to uphold or dispute with false doctrine the teachings of Christ. What hypocrisy to think otherwise and offer up there own written word on this forum to dispute the value of the writen word of Christ. Christ is the reality of and the empowerment to hold to and practice true doctrine by the Spirit.
I hear crickets. All I see is people trying to evade questions by asking questions of their own.
I also have a question of my own to those who promote the "messages written in their hearts, - not in ther Bible" argument. Here is the question: Can you tell me some of those things you have written in your hearts that are useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, but are NOT mentioned in the Bible?
Thank you in advance for answering both of these questions.
2 Tim 2:16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness
Well, I would say the slavery is wrong, which is a bit further than the bible goes. Also, women are equal to men, and not chattel of men. Really, there are a lot of things one could say.
If you believe all scripture is God breathed, do you trust the book of Judas, or any of the other books that happen not be included in the bible?
And what if Timothy made that part up? Of course he would say everything he wrote down came from God, but you can't use him saying that as evidence that it's true. How do you know that verse was actually God breathed? Because it said so?
Those are just examples.
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