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One of the luxuries of being retired is having the time to pursue studying the Bible. After many weeks of intense study on the topics of Universal redemption and annihilation I must conclude that Jesus said or inferred on more occasions than not that most of us would be lost--that is, that only a few would make it through the narrow door, which is, of course, Jesus Himself. I know He said "If I be lifted up I will draw all men to Myself" but that doesn't make up for the two times He said "Many will take the broad road to destruction", "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord...", "The Good Shepherd Gives His Life (only) for His Sheep", "Unless you repent you will perish", etc. I think the word, "draw" implies maybe "attract" but certainly not draw as in irresistibly pull without power to resist. The bottom line is that Jesus warned more about missing the boat, then He did spreading sugar-coated niceties that everything was fine; that He had it all under control and we had nothing to worry about. In fact, we do have plenty to worry about and He didn't mince words letting us know on innumerable occasions.
The good news though, is that even if only a few find the way to heaven through the narrow door, we won't be suffering the torments of hell in the meantime. While we have debated innumerable times here about the three doctrines of eternal destiny, the overwhelming weight in terms of sheer numbers of verses falls to eternal destruction for the wicked. The Scriptures seem to heavily support soul-sleep until the final resurrection. It will be like precisely one second after those who are saved close their eyes in death they will awaken to the resurrection with new immortal bodies. The lost will later awaken in the same way to be thrown into the fire that destroys utterly. That is what the Scriptures indicate to me. If other feel differently I'd be interested in hearing your POV.
One of the luxuries of being retired is having the time to pursue studying the Bible. After many weeks of intense study on the topics of Universal redemption and annihilation I must conclude that Jesus said or inferred on more occasions than not that most of us would be lost--that is, that only a few would make it through the narrow door, which is, of course, Jesus Himself. I know He said "If I be lifted up I will draw all men to Myself" but that doesn't make up for the two times He said "Many will take the broad road to destruction", "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord...", "The Good Shepherd Gives His Life (only) for His Sheep", "Unless you repent you will perish", etc. I think the word, "draw" implies maybe "attract" but certainly not draw as in irresistibly pull without power to resist. The bottom line is that Jesus warned more about missing the boat, then He did spreading sugar-coated niceties that everything was fine; that He had it all under control and we had nothing to worry about. In fact, we do have plenty to worry about and He didn't mince words letting us know on innumerable occasions.
The good news though, is that even if only a few find the way to heaven through the narrow door, we won't be suffering the torments of hell in the meantime. While we have debated innumerable times here about the three doctrines of eternal destiny, the overwhelming weight in terms of sheer numbers of verses falls to eternal destruction for the wicked. The Scriptures seem to heavily support soul-sleep until the final resurrection. It will be like precisely one second after those who are saved close their eyes in death they will awaken to the resurrection with new immortal bodies. The lost will later awaken in the same way to be thrown into the fire that destroys utterly. That is what the Scriptures indicate to me. If other feel differently I'd be interested in hearing your POV.
Praise God thrillobyte...I praise our precious God for giving you the eyes of understanding...to see His truth!
May God Bless you mightily...as He has and as He is doing...and as He will always continue to do.
One of the luxuries of being retired is having the time to pursue studying the Bible. After many weeks of intense study on the topics of Universal redemption and annihilation I must conclude that Jesus said or inferred on more occasions than not that most of us would be lost--that is, that only a few would make it through the narrow door, which is, of course, Jesus Himself. I know He said "If I be lifted up I will draw all men to Myself" but that doesn't make up for the two times He said "Many will take the broad road to destruction", "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord...", "The Good Shepherd Gives His Life (only) for His Sheep", "Unless you repent you will perish", etc. I think the word, "draw" implies maybe "attract" but certainly not draw as in irresistibly pull without power to resist. The bottom line is that Jesus warned more about missing the boat, then He did spreading sugar-coated niceties that everything was fine; that He had it all under control and we had nothing to worry about. In fact, we do have plenty to worry about and He didn't mince words letting us know on innumerable occasions.
The good news though, is that even if only a few find the way to heaven through the narrow door, we won't be suffering the torments of hell in the meantime. While we have debated innumerable times here about the three doctrines of eternal destiny, the overwhelming weight in terms of sheer numbers of verses falls to eternal destruction for the wicked. The Scriptures seem to heavily support soul-sleep until the final resurrection. It will be like precisely one second after those who are saved close their eyes in death they will awaken to the resurrection with new immortal bodies. The lost will later awaken in the same way to be thrown into the fire that destroys utterly. That is what the Scriptures indicate to me. If other feel differently I'd be interested in hearing your POV.
I have a feeling this is going to be a fascinating thread ....
Thanks for sharing what you have been reading/concluding... I myself have been going through a similar process of studying and arriving at what I believe are more accurate conclusions.
To the OP: You are doing exactly what I recommend to everyone. Read the scriptures. It is quite clear to me that you have read and understood correctly. That's not hard if you read and not "spin" it. I hope you will keep studying. You will be amazed and how much more you can learn and how the HOly Spirit will continue to open your eyes. God Bless.
One of the luxuries of being retired is having the time to pursue studying the Bible. After many weeks of intense study on the topics of Universal redemption and annihilation I must conclude that Jesus said or inferred on more occasions than not that most of us would be lost--that is, that only a few would make it through the narrow door, which is, of course, Jesus Himself. I know He said "If I be lifted up I will draw all men to Myself" but that doesn't make up for the two times He said "Many will take the broad road to destruction", "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord...", "The Good Shepherd Gives His Life (only) for His Sheep", "Unless you repent you will perish", etc. I think the word, "draw" implies maybe "attract" but certainly not draw as in irresistibly pull without power to resist. The bottom line is that Jesus warned more about missing the boat, then He did spreading sugar-coated niceties that everything was fine; that He had it all under control and we had nothing to worry about. In fact, we do have plenty to worry about and He didn't mince words letting us know on innumerable occasions.
The good news though, is that even if only a few find the way to heaven through the narrow door, we won't be suffering the torments of hell in the meantime. While we have debated innumerable times here about the three doctrines of eternal destiny, the overwhelming weight in terms of sheer numbers of verses falls to eternal destruction for the wicked. The Scriptures seem to heavily support soul-sleep until the final resurrection. It will be like precisely one second after those who are saved close their eyes in death they will awaken to the resurrection with new immortal bodies. The lost will later awaken in the same way to be thrown into the fire that destroys utterly. That is what the Scriptures indicate to me. If other feel differently I'd be interested in hearing your POV.
Hey my friend,
I am so sorry to hear that you no longer believe in God reconciling all men to himself, but I am encouraged that you are still keeping an open mind and willing to hear someone elses point of view. Even if you never see him saving all in this lifetime, I know you one day will for everything that is now hidden will be made known to all.
The beauty of all this though is I also once waiverd between the two. When I went back to where I first started it was those very same verses that had me questioning if I had it right, luckily for me God wasn't finished, for with doubt came more studying and more seeking. It is only doubt that makes one seek for when you think you know it all, you are done with seeking, so how will you ever find the truth and have complete confidence that you are on the right path?
God has assured us that if we continue seeking he will show us the truth and when you know the truth it sets you free, the truth is freedom, not bondage. It took time and alot of sleepless nights but now I am solidfied in my belief that God is saving everyone. Now I am not saying I have complete knowledge already, for no one does. There are many things which I don't understand, but I am 100% sure of him saving everyone, so sure that I would be willing to die for that, there isn't anyone that can convince me otherwise. Knowing this makes the entire Word come together without contradictions.
With time God has continued to reveal the things I have questioned and he does it through his word. So I will say to you, continue seeking for with those very verses that has you now thinking he isn't saving all, in them lies the fact, that he is saving eveyone. To understand these verses it is really important to start at the very beginning of creation. Genesis 1-3, Understanding the creation of man.
This is where God started his book and there is a reason he started there. All the answers lie in Genesis. God could have written that one book because all the others books including the books of the new testament say the exact same thing. Nothing has changed, he did the same things over and over again using different people to bring the same message so that we may believe.
For tonight I will start with many will call me Lord Lord. I will give you a few questions to consider? We will go through each one and you see that with each of these he is saying the very same things to the very same people; the worker of iniquity!
Matthew 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
What is God's will?
Who is it that's doing his will?
Do unbelievers call him Lord Lord?
Who do you know today that calls him Lord Lord?
Are unbelievers prophesying in His name?
Who do you know today that prophesied in his name?
Are unbelievers casting out devils in his name?
Who do you know today that cast out devils in his name?
Are unbelievers doing many wonderful works in his name?
Who do you know today that has done many wonderful works in his name?
Here in lies the worker of iniquity! Who is he telling to depart from him? Think about it carefully?
OK. If I have this correctly "theory of universalism" the Idea that Christ died for the sins of every man who ever lived. but yet your wondering why some will miss the boat.
When I am teaching of the forgivness of God I reach into my pocket and hold a dollar out in my hand for the person to take explaining that this is a symbol of his forgivness. I almost always get the same look confusion. Go ahead I say take it there are no strings attached. Its the same with God. Christ died so that we may hide in his blood and therfore be forgiven all we have to do is accept it. Take it from his hand , go ahead he's waiting. Unfortunatly most are staring back confused.
Many who believe in the restoration of all to God believe that people will experience death, destruction, condemnation, will perish. This is confined to the ages or eons. Many will not inherit the kingdom but eventually all will be subjected to God so that He may be all in all. There are many scriptures which speak to the final restoration of all to God. How do you read, for example, Romans 8, which speaks to the promise for the whole creation?
Romans 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, [i]in *hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
*hope=elpis=expectation
May God bless you in your studies. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 06-22-2012 at 11:48 PM..
I am not 100% settled on the matter of soul-sleep. At this moment it makes the most sense to me based on the scriptures. Peter says, "For David did not ascend to heaven...". Many will say, "Well, Peter was talking about bodily ascending into heaven, not his soul." This makes sense until we read John, "No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man." This, of course, is inaccurate, because Elijah bodily ascended to heaven. So John must be talking about the soul. This is not to mention the numerous scriptures from Ecclesiastes and the Psalms about the dead knowing nothing (Eccl. 9:5,10) which seems peculiar to me if their soul is in heaven because you would respond, "Well, of course they know something--they know their soul is in heaven and their body is in the ground." Then there is Ps. 146:4 "When his spirit goes back to the ground, his thoughts perish". Now the argument, I'm sure, will be made that these verses refer strictly to the body (even though Psalm 146 specifically states the spirit goes into the ground). But the scriptures don't say, "these refer strictly to the body" so it's a judgment call.
I'm evolving on this matter so as I study I learn. Many thanks to Verna, Steph and prairieperson for their encouragement.
OK. If I have this correctly "theory of universalism" the Idea that Christ died for the sins of every man who ever lived. but yet your wondering why some will miss the boat.
When I am teaching of the forgivness of God I reach into my pocket and hold a dollar out in my hand for the person to take explaining that this is a symbol of his forgivness. I almost always get the same look confusion. Go ahead I say take it there are no strings attached. Its the same with God. Christ died so that we may hide in his blood and therfore be forgiven all we have to do is accept it. Take it from his hand , go ahead he's waiting. Unfortunatly most are staring back confused.
Hi Papabear3322, the belief is that all will eventually be restored to God in the end, at the end of the ages. What Jesus accomplished on the cross and in His resurrection will completely reverse what happened when Adam sinned, meaning that the disobedience of one man, Adam, will not be greater or have a greater effect that what Jesus accomplished for all people. Jesus will inherit all things, including all people. God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 06-23-2012 at 12:16 AM..
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