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You don't know what the earliest Greek manuscripts are?
in Papyrus 46 (circa 200) the name is Julia (a woman's name)
In most others up to the 12th century, the name is Junia (a woman's name)
Paul wrote Andronicus and Junia were outstanding among the apostles.
How do explain that Junia was a common name for a woman in the first century, (as was Julia) and that the name 'Junias' for a man was virtually unknown?
How do you explain that Origen (185 – 253), John Chrysostom (347–407), and Jerome (347-420) all referred to Junia as a woman?
Here is what John Chrysostom (who wasn't a big fan of women) wrote about Junia:
"O how great is the devotion of this woman that she should be counted worthy of the appellation of apostle?
So, payrus 46 comes from the 2nd century and not the 1st century...One state Julia and other state Junia, but the Greek word is Junias...Paul did not say he/she was an apostle, he said he/she was noted, by who, among the apostles he/she was noted, it does not say that he/she was an apostle...I am noted among my supervisors at work, does that mean that I am a supervisor?...If 'she' was an apostle, why are there no writings by 'her'?...As far as that quote, I see nothing in it implying that it was this so-called, 'Junia'...
How do you know that what you have read regarding this is the truth?...Di you verify it yourself, or is it something that you want to believe so you will not question it any further?....
If you look at both name Ανδρόνικος and Ιουνίας you will note that, in the vocative case, the -ς in replaced with a -ν,...
Last edited by Richard1965; 09-12-2012 at 10:53 AM..
You are right...They CAN and DO...But MAY they DO it?...That is the question from Scripture...
Coincidentally--or not--written by a man!
But seriously, it has to be taken in the context in which it was written, as others have pointed out. The truth is, when you have listened to a Spirit-filled woman--just like a Spirit-filled man--preaching and moving your heart so profoundly that you wonder why you never connected with what they've said so deeply before--Moderator cut: delete
Last edited by Miss Blue; 09-13-2012 at 08:16 PM..
Reason: inappropriate for this forum
The Catholic Church would never change their views that the sun revolved around the earth.
The Catholic Church was created by Jesus Christ to be the keeper and bulwark of the FAITH, not the keeper of science. They had an opinion on something that they were not required to know or to keep or even any Authority to proclaim. (Even though, at the time, they certainly thought they were right.) The Catholic Church today is very much compatible with science. Go do some research for yourself. They believe truth never trumps truth.
Getting back to the thread, the tradition of having women not becoming priests is part of the faith, and therefore will not change.
But seriously, it has to be taken in the context in which it was written, as others have pointed out. The truth is, when you have listened to a Spirit-filled woman--just like a Spirit-filled man--preaching and moving your heart so profoundly that you wonder why you never connected with what they've said so deeply before--Moderator cut: delete
Due to the moderator's delete, it leaves an incomplete sentence, so I will complete it with an alternate but more appropriately-worded phrase:
"it just doesn't matter whether the speaker is male or female".
But seriously, it has to be taken in the context in which it was written, as others have pointed out. The truth is, when you have listened to a Spirit-filled woman--just like a Spirit-filled man--preaching and moving your heart so profoundly that you wonder why you never connected with what they've said so deeply before--Moderator cut: delete
It's easy to dismiss a troubling passage when you believe it was written by some dude.
It's easy to dismiss a troubling passage when you believe it was written by some dude.
It had to be written by a dude. I don't know of any scripture written by a woman, although there used to be old speculation that Hebrews may have been. I don't find the passage "troubling" anyway. It is what it is, but there are stronger things in faith than written words. I would find it more troubling that people would prefer to ignore what they can see and here before them now in lieu of something written by a brilliant and faithful, but very human person living in a time and place that no longer exists.
I have several friends that are great at sharing the gospel and many love their teaching, love and passion for God, I think when we are all to share the good news of Jesus nomatter our gender.
It had to be written by a dude. I don't know of any scripture written by a woman, although there used to be old speculation that Hebrews may have been. I don't find the passage "troubling" anyway. It is what it is, but there are stronger things in faith than written words. I would find it more troubling that people would prefer to ignore what they can see and here before them now in lieu of something written by a brilliant and faithful, but very human person living in a time and place that no longer exists.
You missed the point (or dodged it). Scripture is from God.
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