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Joh 20:17 Jesus said to her, Do not touch Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father. But go to My brothers and say to them, I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and My God, and your God.
How can Yeshua have a God if He is God?...How can He have a Father if He is the Father?...
Joh 17:1 Jesus spoke these things and lifted up His eyes to Heaven, and said, Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son may also glorify You,
Joh 17:2 as You gave to Him authority over all flesh, so that to all which You gave to Him, He may give to them everlasting life.
Joh 17:3 And this is everlasting life, that they may know You, the only true God, andJesus Christ, whom You have sent.
Yeshua here seems to be indicating that THE Father is the only True God...
Joh 17:7 Now they have known that all things, whatever You gave to Me, are from You.
If Yeshua were God wouldn't this mean that He was giving Himself All Things?...
Joh 17:8 For the Words which You gave to Me, I have given to them. And they received and truly knew that I came out from beside You, and they believed that You sent Me.
How can Yeshua be God if the Words were given to Him By the Father, the only True God, wouldn't He already have them if He were God?...
Yeshua did not claim to be GOD the Father... rather He claimed as One who is One with the Father and was with the Father even before He became flesh to redeem man. He does not speak to Himself as GOD but to the Father... as what we are contending here that there are 3 Persons in the Trinity - the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit - yet One GOD. The Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Spirit and the Spirit is not the Father - yet they are One GOD in 3 distinct Persons... got it?
Last edited by alabalfred; 11-17-2012 at 05:50 AM..
Reason: typo error
Yeshua did not claim to be GOD the Father... rather He claimed as One who is One with the Father and was with the Father even before He became flesh to redeem man. He does not speak to Himself as GOD but to the Father... as what we are contending here that there are 3 Persons in the Trinity - the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit - yet One GOD. The Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Spirit and the Spirit is not the Father - yet they are One GOD in 3 distinct Persons... got it?
This may be a crude analogy, and I'm not saying it's one I've used for the Trinity before (I don't know what I believe in the Trinity, that stuff is all new to me), but...when an amoeba splits into two parts, each part will do different things, react to different things because each is going its own way, but aren't they still both part of the same creature? I mean exactly the same, not the same in some metaphoric way?
The two can even bump into one another randomly and hence, interact (i.e. communicate), even though, again, they ARE the same thing, at least originally.
I do not believe in the trinity doctrine no matter how you serve it up. What I do believe is if you want to know who God IS and what He is like in nature and character, simply look at Jesus Christ( not a Jewish man with a beard), but the Life that is in him,that is the Light to all men, for he is the exact representation of who God IS Hebrews 1:2.
Moderator cut: Deleted The consciousness of God is His Holy Spirit just as our consciousness is our Spirit. Jesus was born as human and the only begotten Son of God. He is the only human who permanently had direct access to His Father's Holy Spirit to guide His growth and spiritual maturity . . . unlike the prophets whose contact was sporadic and unpredictable. Because of this constant contact and tutelage Jesus eventually acquired God's mature consciousness (Holy Spirit) and became identical with it ("This is my Son in whom I am well pleased.").
When Jesus died and was reborn as Spirit . . . His Holy Spirit joined the collective human consciousness and became available as the Comforter to guide each of us within our consciousness . . . just as God's Holy Spirit had guided His. Now we have a similar advantage and guidance to aid us to spiritual maturity . . . unlike our poor ancestors prior to Christ' resurrection (rebirth as Spirit). There are NO three persons. That is a human fabrication as is all the folderol and jargonese created to "explain" it. God is Spirit . . . and it is and was His perfect Holy Spirit (mature agape consciousness) that needed to be produced in a human consciousness to connect all of us to God. Christ was begotten by God to insure that would happen.
Matthew 3:16-17 "As soon as Jesus was baptized, he came up out of the water. Then heaven was opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God coming down like a dove and lighting on him. Then a voice said from heaven, "This is my own dear Son, with whom I am pleased."
The SON was baptized, the HOLY SPIRIT descended on the SON and the FATHER Spoke about the SON...
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Can We Explain the Mystery of the TRINITY?
