Does Theology trump what the Bible plainly declares! ? (preacher, dogma, priest)
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I posted the proof. I know it's true and if you reject it then that's your problem. I don't expect that you are willing to receive the truth so I choose not to argue with you. Let the facts stand and I am very comfortable that your wrong based on the facts.
I choose not to argue also, but to present the truths quoted in the King James Version of the Bible.
Jesus said in John 5:[28] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
[29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
I choose not to argue also, but to present the truths quoted in the King James Version of the Bible.
Jesus said in John 5:[28] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
[29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Just as long as you realize the "damnation" is not eternal, you can also believe "God will save all mankind for Christ gave Himself a ransom for all (1 Tim.2:4-6). You do believe 1 Timothy 2:4-6 is true, don't you?
Thank you, Eusebius . . . but we do not disahree about the God inspiration. We differ on what that means. You read DICTATION . . . I read INSPIRATION. They are NOT the same thing. Inspiration requiresinterpretation using the existing knowledge and beliefs of the receiver. Dictation does NOT . . . it merely requires transcription.
I agree with that notion. The “Bible” is written in terms which the surrounding people would have understood. The “bible” uses the language of the day, contemporary with the time when it was first inspired. This is the one concept many people fail to realize.
Just as long as you realize the "damnation" is not eternal, you can also believe "God will save all mankind for Christ gave Himself a ransom for all (1 Tim.2:4-6). You do believe 1 Timothy 2:4-6 is true, don't you?
I certainly agree with 1 Timothy 2:2-6, and believe that God will save all who believe in His Son and He knows the time of their salvation. I believe that God in His omniscience knows every person on the face of the earth who is diligently hungering and thirsting after righteousness and in His omnipotence makes it possible for these persons to receive the gospel message, to repent and receive the Holy Spirit. The account of Cornelius in Acts. chapter 10 shows that God is no respector of persons. Acts 10:[34] Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
[35] But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. God will see that His will is carried out at the proper time.
God nor Christ ever used the word "eternal" and they never meant aion nor aionion to mean eternal.
A true statement, but for others to acknowledge that would alter their belief systems (B.S.).
Which have been taught from those of similar mindsets (the lost) for hundreds of ages.
Originally Posted by Eusebius Just as long as you realize the "damnation" is not eternal, you can also believe "God will save all mankind for Christ gave Himself a ransom for all (1 Tim.2:4-6). You do believe 1 Timothy 2:4-6 is true, don't you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert M Prince
I certainly agree with 1 Timothy 2:2-6, and believe that God will save all who believe in His Son and He knows the time of their salvation. I believe that God in His omniscience knows every person on the face of the earth who is diligently hungering and thirsting after righteousness and in His omnipotence makes it possible for these persons to receive the gospel message, to repent and receive the Holy Spirit. The account of Cornelius in Acts. chapter 10 shows that God is no respector of persons. Acts 10:[34] Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
[35] But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. God will see that His will is carried out at the proper time.
My Very Dear Robert,
1 Timothy 2:4-6 does not say God will save only those who believe in His Son. If you will look over that passage again you will note it says "God will save all mankind FOR . . . Christ gave Himself a ransom for all." Think about that!
I'm curious why no one ever says this about this verse:
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man,
the many were constituted sinners, thus also,
through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."
Why they never say concerning the red text: "But you have to believe to be made a sinner!
My Very Dear Robert,
1 Timothy 2:4-6 does not say God will save only those who believe in His Son. If you will look over that passage again you will note it says "God will save all mankind FOR . . . Christ gave Himself a ransom for all." Think about that!
I'm curious why no one ever says this about this verse:
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man,
the many were constituted sinners, thus also,
through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."
Why they never say concerning the red text: "But you have to believe to be made a sinner!
An interesting observation, Eusebius. But the verse says that "by the disobedience of one man, many were made sinners." Paul goes on to say that "through the obedience of one [Jesus] shall many be made righteous." Jesus did give His life as a ransom for all mankind, but the verse in Romans 5 says: [19]by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Paul did not say ALL in this verse but MANY.
An interesting observation, Eusebius. But the verse says that "by the disobedience of one man, many were made sinners." Paul goes on to say that "through the obedience of one [Jesus] shall many be made righteous." Jesus did give His life as a ransom for all mankind, but the verse in Romans 5 says: [19]by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Paul did not say ALL in this verse but MANY.
Thanks for your thoughts Robert on this most important passage of Scripture.
There are, at least to me, two ways to look at this "many" in 5:19:
"the many" of verse 19 is "the all" of verse 18 since we know all were condemned due to what Adam did.
Paul changed from "the all" of verse 18 to "the many" in verse 19 because all mankind minus Jesus Christ were made sinners, since "He Who knew no sin was made sin for our sakes." But He was sinless unlike the rest of mankind due to what Adam did.
This does not mean faith is of no value in this administration of grace we are living in since Paul's day. In this administration God has been saving specific ones of the nations through grace and faith. We who believe are saved for the coming two ages (millinnium and new earth ages).
But you will notice, whenever Paul writes concerning what Christ accomplished for all mankind, it is never prefaced with an "if only" or "but." Rather Paul always says it is based upon what Christ did.
All mankind get what they get due to what Adam did. We didn't have to do anything to get what we get from his sinful act. Likewise all mankind get what they will get due to what Christ did. Fair is fair. If Adam can do it, a greater than Adam can do it too.
All mankind get what they get due to what Adam did. We didn't have to do anything to get what we get from his sinful act. Likewise all mankind get what they will get due to what Christ did. Fair is fair. If Adam can do it, a greater than Adam can do it too.
I dont deny that God has the power to save people in the afterlife. But look at Heb. 9:[27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Even if God may give opportunity for some to repent after this earthly existence, I feel much more secure to repent in this life and receive the Holy Ghost "whom God hath given to them that obey him" Acts 5:32). That Holy Ghost makes it possible to "bring forth fruits meet for repentance" Matt. ch. 3. Since that Spirit does the work in and through us, we have nothing of which we can boast. As Jesus said in Matt. 5:[16] Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Note that He says those good works glorify our Father in heaven, not ourselves.
Last edited by Robert M Prince; 11-16-2012 at 04:44 AM..
Theology, like logic and psychology is a man made discipline. The Bible, the Word of God, trumps all human conceits.
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