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Old 02-09-2013, 01:23 PM
 
1,321 posts, read 1,040,778 times
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neither had they in the ship with them more than one loaf. 15 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand? Mark 8


Watch out for the leaven of this board.
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:44 PM
 
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The leaven of the Pharisees is basically an arrogant selfish pride .....See Leaven or yeast is added to the bread to add air , or puff it up .... Like Jesus was saying the Pharisees were puffed up in pride , don`t be like them ...take the selfless Road in your belief and condition of behavior .... See people can feel abused , or they take side against others which will attract the wrong spirit , so pride can come in and people may not even know it , or covetousness is another condition with can bring pride in , and people do not even know that pride is there which can hurt others
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:07 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 12,948,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Follower Of X View Post
neither had they in the ship with them more than one loaf. 15 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand? Mark 8


Watch out for the leaven of this board.
The question one should actually ask is this:

What was the leaven of the Pharisees?

Mat 16:6-12 Now Jesus said to them, "See and take heed of the leaven of the Pharisees and
Sadducees!" (7) Now they reasoned among themselves, saying that "We got no bread." (8) Now,
knowing it, Jesus said, "Why are you reasoning among yourselves, scant of faith, that you have no
bread? (9) Not as yet are you apprehending, neither remembering the five cakes of bread of the five
thousand and how many panniers you got? (10) Neither the seven cakes of bread of the four thousand
and how many hampers you got? (11) How is it you are not apprehending that I spoke not to you
concerning bread? Now take heed of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." (12) Then they
understand that he did not say to take heed of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees
and Sadducees.

What was the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees?

The Pharisees taught this as Josephus stated:

"[Pharisees] believe that the wicked are detained in an everlasting prison [eirgmon aidion] subject to eternal punishment" [aidios timoria]; and the Essenes [another Jewish sect] "allotted to bad souls a dark, tempestuous place, full of never-ceasing punishment [timoria adialeipton], where they suffer a deathless punishment, [athanaton timorian]."

The Sadducees believed in eternal destruction. the Sadducees teaching was that there was no resurrection of the dead, nor angels, nor spirits, that they were eternally lost.

That was their teaching.

So, yes, we should beware of your teaching because you are teaching either that of the Pharisees of Sadducees.
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
987 posts, read 909,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
The question one should actually ask is this:

What was the leaven of the Pharisees?

Mat 16:6-12 Now Jesus said to them, "See and take heed of the leaven of the Pharisees and
Sadducees!" (7) Now they reasoned among themselves, saying that "We got no bread." (8) Now,
knowing it, Jesus said, "Why are you reasoning among yourselves, scant of faith, that you have no
bread? (9) Not as yet are you apprehending, neither remembering the five cakes of bread of the five
thousand and how many panniers you got? (10) Neither the seven cakes of bread of the four thousand
and how many hampers you got? (11) How is it you are not apprehending that I spoke not to you
concerning bread? Now take heed of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." (12) Then they
understand that he did not say to take heed of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees
and Sadducees.

What was the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees?

The Pharisees taught this as Josephus stated:

"[Pharisees] believe that the wicked are detained in an everlasting prison [eirgmon aidion] subject to eternal punishment" [aidios timoria]; and the Essenes [another Jewish sect] "allotted to bad souls a dark, tempestuous place, full of never-ceasing punishment [timoria adialeipton], where they suffer a deathless punishment, [athanaton timorian]."

The Sadducees believed in eternal destruction. the Sadducees teaching was that there was no resurrection of the dead, nor angels, nor spirits, that they were eternally lost.

That was their teaching.

So, yes, we should beware of your teaching because you are teaching either that of the Pharisees of Sadducees.
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,559 posts, read 11,904,766 times
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What did the Pharisees believe? That they were justified by keeping the law.

Faith, not works...
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:39 AM
 
Location: New England
32,279 posts, read 21,136,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Follower Of X View Post
neither had they in the ship with them more than one loaf. 15 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand? Mark 8


Watch out for the leaven of this board.
You're trying to whack square pegs into round holes here. The Pharisee whose leavened bread we are told to beware of represents organized religion and its burdensome teachings that may appear outwardly godly but in truth is from the pit of hell. Those who you oppose on this board have no part of organized religion.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:54 AM
 
5,174 posts, read 2,538,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
What did the Pharisees believe? That they were justified by keeping the law.
Faith, not works...
Please notice one of the works that the Pharisees put faith in found at Mark [7 v 3] was their added washing of hands [with their fists up to their elbows]. They were holding on to elder tradition, Not keeping the law, but keeping human ideas outside of the law. They were not playing by the rules of the law but by their own customs or traditions outside of the Constitution of the Mosaic law.
- Mark 7 vs 1-7,13; Matthew 15 v 9
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:30 AM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,559 posts, read 11,904,766 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Please notice one of the works that the Pharisees put faith in found at Mark [7 v 3] was their added washing of hands [with their fists up to their elbows]. They were holding on to elder tradition, Not keeping the law, but keeping human ideas outside of the law. They were not playing by the rules of the law but by their own customs or traditions outside of the Constitution of the Mosaic law.
- Mark 7 vs 1-7,13; Matthew 15 v 9
Either way, they were trusting in their works to make them worthy.
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:57 AM
 
5,174 posts, read 2,538,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Either way, they were trusting in their works to make them worthy.
'Worthy' of what ?______

I wonder what they wanted to be worthy of ? ________ Weren't they trusting their own opinions and shoving them into the
' mouth of God ', so to speak, as being Scripture, as if they were some sort of holy ventriloquists ?

Weren't they just making a pretense of honoring God all the while they were craftily trusting in their own selfish agenda ?

Weren't they sitting themselves in the judgment seat of Moses [ Matthew 23 v 2 ] as if they were the Doctors of the law ?

Didn't the works of the scribes and Pharisees just 'build up a system of worship' saying that it had God's approval ?
Doesn't it seem they really wanted the praises of men [ worthy of men praising them ] not God ?
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,559 posts, read 11,904,766 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
'Worthy' of what ?______
You answered your own question:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Weren't they just making a pretense of honoring God all the while they were craftily trusting in their own selfish agenda ?

Weren't they sitting themselves in the judgment seat of Moses [ Matthew 23 v 2 ] as if they were the Doctors of the law ?

Didn't the works of the scribes and Pharisees just 'build up a system of worship' saying that it had God's approval ?
Doesn't it seem they really wanted the praises of men [ worthy of men praising them ] not God ?
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