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You need to reread the law. The "washings" are part of it. Jesus was following the law when he was baptized at age 30 to begin his work as a "Priest".
Don't have much time right now. Have to go.
I don't have to reread the Law. I already know it was not a part of it. You have to provide a Scripture that says baptism was part of the Law of Moses. You are the one who has made the claim.
I don't have to reread the Law. I already know it was not a part of it. You have to provide a Scripture that says baptism was part of the Law of Moses. You are the one who has made the claim.
When you have time, of course.
I look forward to hearing from you.
May the grace of God be with you,
Katie
Any ordinance prior to the Church being formed was done under the law. Jesus Himself proved that Baptism is under the law by being baptized. Jesus lived and kept the Law. So there is on clear baptism under the law. Not to mention John was baptizing people and all those were under the law. The followers of Jesus baptized under the law. If you understand when the Church was started you can see that everything prior to that was under the law.
Any ordinance prior to the Church being formed was done under the law. Jesus Himself proved that Baptism is under the law by being baptized. Jesus lived and kept the Law. So there is on clear baptism under the law. Not to mention John was baptizing people and all those were under the law. The followers of Jesus baptized under the law. If you understand when the Church was started you can see that everything prior to that was under the law.
There's a good start.
I must be off to work.
Hey July,
Baptism was not commanded by the Law of Moses. I will ask you again to please give me the Scripture showing that it was one of the Laws. You can give me your reasons all day long for why you believe it was a Law, but without a Scripture, your opinion proves nothing.
I have read some of your posts, and I know that you are very intelligent. So I'm sure when I use words like type and anti-type, you know what I am talking about. There are many types in the Old Testament, which point to baptism in the New Testament. For example, the flood which brought Noah and his family safely through water. Then there were the Israelites crossing the Red Sea. Those are types. Baptism in the New Testament is the anti-type.
You will not find the word "baptize" in the Old Testament. As you said, it is a Greek word (not Hebrew) that has been transliterated into the English language.
Water was used in the OT as a means of cleansing and purification. It was used in sacrifices. It was used for healing. But baptism was not commanded under the Law of Moses.
So now my question for you is this. What is your point? What difference would it make if baptism were commanded under the Law of Moses? Does that nullify it? Does that mean baptism is not necessary for salvation? Does it mean that it is not for the remission of sins, as Peter said it was?
The Old Testament is there for our learning. There are many wonderful examples found there. But we don't go by the Old Testament anymore (I know you know that). We go by the New Testament. We are commanded to be baptized for the remission of our sins and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. That's what matters.
Have a good day at work. Better you than me. I am retired and loving it.
I agree with you that there is something to be said when all are united by the same belief. Isn't is sad that we aren't? And why not? What caused people to start denominations? I believe it is because people get away from the authority of the New Testament. Man always believes his way is better. jmho
God bless you Twin,
I'm so glad to see you still fighting the good fight about the necessity of baptism. It is a doctrine of Christ and His apostles. How many denominations have begun because they don't believe it's necessary?
Katie
Katie
Amen, Katie to the bold !!
The scripture are so plain about being baptized......
Mark 16:16
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
John 14:14-16 15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.
If one loves Jesus what is the problem about being baptised ?? I just don't get it at all.... especially arguing over such and having to defend it !!
One would think their love would draw them to please any and everything pertaining to our Lord Jesus and especially those things in what He commands us to do !!
The scripture tell us obedience is better then sacrifice. And we know that works is not what saves us, it is God's grace yet the obedience part is the after effect of the heart that has been saved.... it is just a part of you and what you have become a new creation in Christ Jesus, amen !!
Well I guess just like you said, "Man always believes his way is better" and we can read in the scripture many times in how people do have this problem with this attitude of the heart.....
Luke 7:29-33
29 And when all the people heard Him, even the tax collectors justified God, having been baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.
John, the baptist said
Matthew 3:11“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire
John 4:1-3 it says: “When, now, the Master became aware that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John—although, indeed, Jesus himself did no baptizing but his disciples did."
I don't think Jesus ever commanded baptism. I also think that in another place Jesus was not referring to being born again with water..that is our flesh birth. He made it clear that "Ye must be born again" (meaning imo, not of the flesh--warer--amniotic fluids) Our second birth is Spiritual birth occurring when we accept/believe Jesus Gospel of the good news from God and receive the Holy Spirit as our comfortor and guide as Jesus promised.
(my opinion,again)I don't think Jesus gave anyone authority to change what he taught. Many misunderstood nearly everything He said and passed it along and convinced enough people to make it "their doctrine" in "their church". He knew this would happen, hence His promise of the Holy Spirit.
1 Peter 3:20-21
who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you. It (baptism) saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Peter is alluding to Noah in the example. Was Noah saved by the water? Or through the water? That's the point. It's not the water that saves, but the faith that brings you through it. Read the whole context.
Quote:
Quote:
Titus 3:5-6 does so mention baptism by stating " He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit"
Washing with what? No water is mentioned. The Holy Spirit is mentioned, though.
Quote:
As Paul wrote:
Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
Which is what was told to Paul earlier in Acts:
“Then he (Ananias) said: ‘The God of our fathers has chosen you to know his will and to see ..... Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’
Jesus commands:
"Make disciples of all nations ... [how? by baptizing and calling on the triune God] .... baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit"
Again...it's the calling on the Lord that does it. Nothing else.
Now...are you ever going to answer my question? Can an unsaved person receive the Holy Spirit?
I don't think Jesus ever commanded baptism. I also think that in another place Jesus was not referring to being born again with water..that is our flesh birth. He made it clear that "Ye must be born again" (meaning imo, not of the flesh--warer--amniotic fluids) Our second birth is Spiritual birth occurring when we accept/believe Jesus Gospel of the good news from God and receive the Holy Spirit as our comfortor and guide as Jesus promised.
(my opinion,again)I don't think Jesus gave anyone authority to change what he taught. Many misunderstood nearly everything He said and passed it along and convinced enough people to make it "their doctrine" in "their church". He knew this would happen, hence His promise of the Holy Spirit.
I disagree Miss Blue (as you knew I would ).
It's pretty clear that Jesus commanded baptism in Matthew 28:18-20.
He says it again in Mark 16:16.
His ambassador, the apostle Peter (who spoke by the Holy Spirit) commanded it as well (Acts 2:38)
We have numerous examples of people in Acts who believed and were baptized.
The great apostle Paul was baptized to have his sins washed away.
Baptism is the saving event, not the cause of our salvation. The blood of Jesus saves.
Baptism is the doctrine/teaching of Jesus Christ, not man.
The scripture are so plain about being baptized......
Mark 16:16
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
John 14:14-16 15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.
If one loves Jesus what is the problem about being baptised ?? I just don't get it at all.... especially arguing over such and having to defend it !!
One would think their love would draw them to please any and everything pertaining to our Lord Jesus and especially those things in what He commands us to do !!
The scripture tell us obedience is better then sacrifice. And we know that works is not what saves us, it is God's grace yet the obedience part is the after effect of the heart that has been saved.... it is just a part of you and what you have become a new creation in Christ Jesus, amen !!
Well I guess just like you said, "Man always believes his way is better" and we can read in the scripture many times in how people do have this problem with this attitude of the heart.....
Luke 7:29-33
29 And when all the people heard Him, even the tax collectors justified God, having been baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.
Vizio;28241839]Peter is alluding to Noah in the example. Was Noah saved by the water? Or through the water? That's the point. It's not the water that saves, but the faith that brings you through it. Read the whole context.
Washing with what? No water is mentioned. The Holy Spirit is mentioned, though.
Again...it's the calling on the Lord that does it. Nothing else.
Now...are you ever going to answer my question? Can an unsaved person receive the Holy Spirit?
You are absolutely right! Noah was saved through water not by water.
And baptism corresponds to that. That is precisely what the verse says.
Baptism is the saving event, not the cause. The blood of Jesus is what washes away sin, not water.
Again, you are 100% correct! It is the calling on the name of the Lord that does it. It is an appeal to God for a good conscience.
Water is most definitely mentioned in 1 Peter 3:18-22.
Just as Noah was brought safely through the flood waters, we, too are brought safely through the waters of baptism. Baptism is an appeal for a good conscience. It is by the resurrection of Jesus Christ we are saved..
Again, baptism is the saving event, not the cause of salvation.
Do you believe you were baptized by the Holy Spirit, and thereby saved?
Blessings,
Katie
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