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Ignore Vizio, Jake. There is no hell . . . of the type Vizio envisions. Also what you believe is not in your control . . . but following Christ's commands to "love God and each other" IS. How you live reveals what you truly believe and if it complies with Christ's commands to His disciples . . . you have nothing to worry about. But Pleroo is right . . . when you know God is real . . . it makes a huge difference in your life. It is inappropriate expectations that are stumbling blocks. We have Dominion here so any physical earthly interventions are out. We are to "overcome and endure," period. Spiritual interventions, however, are in play . . . and that is where belief in God is of tremendous importance.
That is legalism and it won't get you to heaven. We can't please God by what we do.
That is legalism and it won't get you to heaven. We can't please God by what we do.
It has nothing to do with legalism or earning your way into God's graces. We are already there. God IS love and He loves us ALL. We are His children. We do NOT control what we truly believe . . . so it is ridiculous to assume that God would hold us responsible for it. We DO control what we DO and whether or not we do it in "love of God and each other." That is How Christ said His disciples would be identified. You are free to think otherwise, Vizio . . . I will stick with Jesus. As His disciple following His commands, I am unlikely to hear "Depart from me . . . I never knew you."
It has nothing to do with legalism or earning your way into God's graces. We are already there. God IS love and He loves us ALL. We are His children. We do NOT control what we truly believe . . . so it is ridiculous to assume that God would hold us responsible for it. We DO control what we DO and whether or not we do it in "love of God and each other." That is How Christ said His disciples would be identified. You are free to think otherwise, Vizio . . . I will stick with Jesus. As His disciple following His commands, I am unlikely to hear "Depart from me . . . I never knew you."
You realize those disciples that heard "Depart from me...I never knew you" were ones that justified what themselves by having done all sorts of things in his name, right?
DOING things to please God will get you that response.
You are correct....we will be known for our love....but if that's how you are planning on please God, you're in trouble on the day of judgment. Love comes as a result of being a Christian.
"Jesus loves me this I know and that is all I need to know"... then be responsible and if you feel guilty that you weren't "loving" enough towards other (whatever that means) repent.
More or less Jesus in this lazy-man theology is just a stop gap measure.
What's convenient about this is that your mind and conscience ultimately becomes the absolute source of truth.
[2] can be found what Jesus said as it is written in scriptures; simply stated:
Hebrews 11:6 And withoutfaith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”
2 Thessalonians 2:12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
Aisi, where we go in the spiritual world is directly related to where we are spiritually when we pass. If we are twisted by transgressing God's Law of Love and refusing to repent of that, or by retaining a lack of forgiveness of the hurts and pains inflicted on us by others who have transgressed the Law of Love, then we will be in a dark place spiritually, both here and in the "hereafter".
But that doesn't mean we have to stay there. If we have a desire to follow the path which Jesus showed us ... of a willingness to release our hurts and to forgive others, and to recognize and repent of our own lack of Love wherever we have darkness, then we will begin to experience some spiritual healing.
However, there is another aspect of the way Jesus showed us which you will not be able to experience as long as you do not believe there is a God, and that is a desire to receive the Love of God, and the willingness to be fully reliant on God. Without that desire and willingness, you can not experience full healing, nor experience the wonderful things God has in store for you.
Awesome post! So well expressed. God knows our heart. Nothing is hidden from him. There are people who are religious as all get out who say "praise Jesus" and quote the bible all day long who have very darkened hearts. That is known to God. No one can be a fake in his presence. God requires honesty and true humility to the extent that a person is able to be so. I'm sure there are exceptions for people who are mentally retarded, very young, abused, etc... another reason why only God himself can judge any person.
What if, despite a lifetime of genuine efforts, you are truly incapable of believing in Jesus and God, but you lead your life as if Jesus did exist. Do you still go to hell?
Matthew 7:24-29 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. 28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
What if, despite a lifetime of genuine efforts, you are truly incapable of believing in Jesus and God, but you lead your life as if Jesus did exist. Do you still go to hell?
Which 'hell' are you thinking about ?
There is the biblical hell where Jesus went at death until God resurrected Jesus out of hell [ sheol ]. -Acts 2 vs 27,31,32.
Since Jesus taught the dead sleep then the Bible's hell is just the common grave until a person is resurrected back to life.
[John 11 vs 11-14; Ecclesiastes 9 v 5; Psalms 6 v 5; 13 v 3; 115 v 17; 146 v 4; Daniel 12 vs 2,13 ]
There is also the teaching of a non-biblical hell [ religious-myth hell of burning forever ] that is taught as being Scripture.
If one lives their life as Jesus did exist, then wouldn't one also be doing the work Jesus did at Luke 4 v 43 ?
Jesus said at Matthew [24 v 14 ] that his followers would be spreading 'the good news of God's kingdom' on an international scale before the end comes of all badness on earth.
The wicked are Not considered as being in the Bible's temporary hell [ grave ] but will be destroyed.- Psalm 92 v 7
That is why God asks to repent rather than perish [ be destroyed ] - 2nd Peter 3 v 9
It has nothing to do with legalism or earning your way into God's graces. We are already there. God IS love and He loves us ALL. We are His children. We do NOT control what we truly believe . . . so it is ridiculous to assume that God would hold us responsible for it. We DO control what we DO and whether or not we do it in "love of God and each other." That is How Christ said His disciples would be identified. You are free to think otherwise, Vizio . . . I will stick with Jesus. As His disciple following His commands, I am unlikely to hear "Depart from me . . . I never knew you."
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Originally Posted by Vizio
You realize those disciples that heard "Depart from me...I never knew you" were ones that justified what themselves by having done all sorts of things in his name, right?
It was their attitude and motives that were wrong, Vizio. They called Him "Lord, Lord and believed they could do all sorts of things in His name . . . but they did NOT DO anything in "love of God and each other."
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DOING things to please God will get you that response.
True . . . but doing them in "love of God and each other" (which apparently you do not understand) will NOT.
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You are correct....we will be known for our love....but if that's how you are planning on please God, you're in trouble on the day of judgment. Love comes as a result of being a Christian.
You obviously don't see that it is your motive that is the problem, Vizio. My sisters sparrow and Heartsong explained it very well in another thread.
What if, despite a lifetime of genuine efforts, you are truly incapable of believing in Jesus and God, but you lead your life as if Jesus did exist. Do you still go to hell?
You can't have faith? I don't understand that.
We have faith in things all the time.
If your idea of "belief" is some 100% convincing, then no one "believes".
What we do is believe in what we're 100% convinced of and have faith in all else. No one is incapable of having saving faith. NO ONE.
Awesome post! So well expressed. God knows our heart. Nothing is hidden from him. There are people who are religious as all get out who say "praise Jesus" and quote the bible all day long who have very darkened hearts. That is known to God. No one can be a fake in his presence.
And that, right there, is a very humbling realization.
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God requires honesty and true humility to the extent that a person is able to be so. I'm sure there are exceptions for people who are mentally retarded, very young, abused, etc... another reason why only God himself can judge any person.
All of us are abused, simply by virtue of being born to parents who miss the mark of Love, into a world full of people who also miss the mark of Love. And I think that there is no person who is NOT capable of humility, or cannot receive truth. Because it's about receiving truth at the soul level, not the intellect, that truly makes the difference. And who is likely more humble (more in touch with their soul feelings) than those with less developed intellects to get in the way of that humility?
Also, I personally don't believe God judges anyone directly. I believe God simply has put spiritual laws in place which govern us (and those laws are always for our good). When we transgress those laws, we experience pain and suffering. That is the judgment, and the judgment is intended to show us that we are not on the path to the Life that is in God. In a sense, those laws are our Good Shepherd.
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Awesome post! So well expressed. God knows our heart. Nothing is hidden from him. There are people who are religious as all get out who say "praise Jesus" and quote the bible all day long who have very darkened hearts. That is known to God. No one can be a fake in his presence. God requires honesty and true humility to the extent that a person is able to be so. I'm sure there are exceptions for people who are mentally retarded, very young, abused, etc... another reason why only God himself can judge any person.
