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I really don't have a clue what you mean by that. God said we're all sinners. Honestly...until you begin speaking English and actually reading the Bible, I'm not sure we'll really agree on anything.
No,God even loved us in the state we fell into, a state of ungodliness, alienated from him in our minds, without hope in the world. He( Jesus Christ) did not go around calling us sinners. We don't agree on anything because of how you see yourself,how you see others( just how you see yourself) and God, of whose Light has not yet risen in your heart, for when he has, you will see yourself in a whole new light. You will change who you say you are, and begin to declare to yourself who God says you are. Your belief that one day you will go to heaven in a shipwrecked state of being is delusional.
You are predestined for nothing other than how you see yourself, for how you see yourself is transpiring into your reality. Let the weak say I am strong,let the poor say I am rich,let the sinner say I am the righteousness of God.
Wake o sleeper, rise from the dead and Christ shall shine in your heart.
Predestination was never about God choosing out some special few and whisking them away to heaven to live happily ever after. Your predestination is to be a son or daughter of the Living God. You will never be it, unless you start agreeing with God.
No,God even loved us in the state we fell into, a state of ungodliness, alienated from him in our minds, without hope in the world. He( Jesus Christ) did not go around calling us sinners. We don't agree on anything because of how you see yourself,how you see others( just how you see yourself) and God, of whose Light has not yet risen in your heart, for when he has, you will see yourself in a whole new light. You will change who you say you are, and begin to declare to yourself who God says you are. Your belief that one day you will go to heaven in a shipwrecked state of being is delusional.
You are predestined for nothing other than how you see yourself, for how you see yourself is transpiring into your reality. Let the weak say I am strong,let the poor say I am rich,let the sinner say I am the righteousness of God.
Wake o sleeper, rise from the dead and Christ shall shine in your heart.
I'm sorry...but you really need to read the Bible sometime. God stated outright that yes--he predestined Christians since before the foundation of the world.
I'm sorry...but you really need to read the Bible sometime. God stated outright that yes--he predestined Christians since before the foundation of the world.
Where does it say he predestined Christians ?. Which bible are you reading ?.
And "this is why you fail" ( to paraphrase Yoda). God does NOT wish for things that cannot be. The word translated as "perfect" does NOT mean perfect as we use it in English. A closer analogue would be "mature." Since we are all embryo Spirits in this physical womb . . . why wouldn't he expect us to "mature" successfully to be reborn as Spirit upon our physical death . . . as Jesus was? Don't we expect our babies to "mature" properly in the womb before their birth? Don't we expect our children to "mature" after their birth? Since that is the way God made things to be . . . why do you think we are any exception? How is that process not "predestined?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
You've obviously never READ the Bible. Or you completely disregard it. The OT is full of commands of God to the Israelites, who were stiff-necked and refused to do as he commanded. Paul discussed that in detail in Romans. You'd do well to read it sometime.
You know I've read the Bible, Vizio . . . let's not be coy. Our stiff-necked savage ancestors NEEDED fear of a higher power (usually Pharaohs or Kings or God) to motivate their self-control. That was the point of the schoolmaster stage of our evolution . . . to develop our capacity for self-control. It is what Jesus referred to when he said the "fields were ripe for the harvest." Our species has the self-control needed and with the presence and guidance of Christ's Holy Spirit (Comforter) we can be taught to follow our heart in love and understand the real reason for our earlier obedience . . . Agape Love as described in 1Cor 13. We are a work in progress, Vizio . . . or should I say children in the process of maturing.
Some people refuse to recognize the virtue of humility emphasized in Scripture....and how to translate the very simple ideas in
the word sinner.
Here it is. Correct if you like ..I will be back later.
The word "mature" cannot be legitimately used to avoid understanding that we as Christians are sinners and at the same time saved.
Why ?
Because it implies that once mature the Christian is finished becoming more Christ-Like which is guess what...impossible.
( if someone thinks they have finished becoming more Christ-Like...then there is no ability to grow , experience and explore openess from the Holy Spirit..
Why and how can this be possibly said?
Because in proclaiming you cannot become more Christ-Like...implies that in fact you are either Jesus himself or...there is no difference and you are not "effected by the Holy Spirit...because youve just claimed there is nothing to distinguish a difference between your so called maturity and the Holy Spirit...
so
the good Christian creature would not know when the Holy Spirit is enlightening...there would be NOTHING( said nicely as usual) to ENLIGHTEN and the experience would not be known...
so where are we ?
the term for this is
we are sinners in effort to become more Christ-like all the time doing the best possible.
this is the virtue humility, humble of heart in not getting attracted to mans largest and biggest interference to inner development and start thinking
he is God or equivalent to God.
this mode for disposition is very important and I could talk for a while but gotta go.
In the end if a Christian is not fully humble of heart after the whole life, and the humble of heart is not known to the soul and is finally in the presence of God, the contrast in self known properties and The Great Godhead, would lack in potencial to even make the association. The very Christian base ideology cannot but fully fortify this outcome in reality.
Therefore if not humble of heart ..recognizing to become more Christ like which can never be acheived...and a habit throughout life , a way of association in the soul....The final position will not know how..because it never did or was...humble of heart.
Not to mention the Holy Spirit cannot be made welcome into a downstairs idea where the creature thinks they are not sinners and thinks they are all finished life and learning and in God Status. Does a tutor approach a household full of students who think they already know everything, have nothing to learn and do not need any inspiration or guidance?
Ok so was in a rush and that's the perspective...and its not obviously a complaint or suggestion that people approach the whole idea of Spirituality like wimps or with feeling like they are nothing but sinners ok? its all about being tough enough to get at things head on...know it...be very proud and happy with the guts to face life head on.etc .
I read entries and can say there is not one I can remember not understanding..if I don't understand it I sit there until I do.
If this gets whatever for lack of proper thinking...it is not my responsibility in getting my perspective down.
* Also I think most people know most of this but don't understand how to join the dots and terminology which can get into attitude forming....which explains why it would be a potential hot topic for discussing in all the different suggestive ways.
Last edited by macpherson; 08-06-2013 at 03:51 PM..
Where does it say he predestined Christians ?. Which bible are you reading ?.
Eph 1:4 "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight." (The book was written to the Christians in Ephesus)
Romans 8:28-30 "And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."
And the whole chapter of Romans 9. He goes on about how it's God's right to do with his creation what he wants. If he wants to predestine someone--it's his choice and you can pound sand if you don't like it.
Eph 1:4 "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight." (The book was written to the Christians in Ephesus)
Romans 8:28-30 "And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."
And the whole chapter of Romans 9. He goes on about how it's God's right to do with his creation what he wants. If he wants to predestine someone--it's his choice and you can pound sand if you don't like it.
No,it says nothing at all about Christians. Now read your post where I have bolded it, which is what I have been saying all along about predestination. You are not going anywhere on a free ticket that says "poor old miserable sinner saved by grace", that simply is not the confession of a person who knows the grace of God by experience. Those who are in the state of Grace, are being conformed into the image they behold, they are bold in who God declares them to be, not boasting to the world about how good they are, but building themselves up in the most holy of faith. Again,how can you do that by going around saying I'm a poor miserable old sinner and can't trust my heart because it is wicked, you'll die in your sin with that false humility. You need Christ if this is your confession.
No,it says nothing at all about Christians. Now read your post where I have bolded it, which is what I have been saying all along about predestination. You are not going anywhere on a free ticket that says "poor old miserable sinner saved by grace", that simply is not the confession of a person who knows the grace of God by experience. Those who are in the state of Grace, are being conformed into the image they behold, they are bold in who God declares them to be, not boasting to the world about how good they are, but building themselves up in the most holy of faith. Again,how can you do that by going around saying I'm a poor miserable old sinner and can't trust my heart because it is wicked, you'll die in your sin with that false humility. You need Christ if this is your confession.
nevermind that those books were letters written to Christian churches laying out Christian doctrine?
Honestly....it's kind of pointless to argue with you--you'll just roll your own theology no matter what the Bible actually says.
nevermind that those books were letters written to Christian churches laying out Christian doctrine?
Honestly....it's kind of pointless to argue with you--you'll just roll your own theology no matter what the Bible actually says.
So God gave the world Jesus Christ and the Christians a bible?.Sounds about right to me. I read the bible for 2 years on and off before stepping into a Christian church and believing on The Lord Jesus Christ. So I guess I shouldn't have been reading letters solely written to Christians
So God gave the world Jesus Christ and the Christians a bible?.Sounds about right to me. I read the bible for 2 years on and off before stepping into a Christian church and believing on The Lord Jesus Christ. So I guess I shouldn't have been reading letters solely written to Christians
God gave the world Jesus---and the Bible is all about him. The letters of the NT were originally written to the churches of the NT--and are all about doctrine. Why is it hard to believe that they were not to be applied generally to a certain group?
If I send a birthday card to you wishing you a Happy Birthday, would anyone else be justified in in taking it and reading it....thinking I'm telling them Happy Birthday?
Or....I'm not sure what you do for a living...but if you work in an office, do you read your boss' emails as if they are your's?
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