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Old 01-03-2014, 01:43 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,195,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
A Christian is one who has done this:

Romans 10:9

If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Actually, it's a LITTLE BIT deeper than that. Paul was alluding to the Shema -- Deut 6:4. A good Jew would recite that passage. Paul has just spent 9 chapters talking about Jews, Gentiles, and salvation. Now, he is saying that if you believe that Jesus is Lord God -- just as an Israelite would confess God as one God....then he'd be saved. It was clearly a reference to Jesus as Lord and God.
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Old 01-03-2014, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
28,098 posts, read 29,970,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
A Christian is one who has done this:

Romans 10:9

If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
But what about these passages, jimmiej:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

And what about Matthew 25:41-46 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Those on the Savior's left had also, at some point, "confessed with their mouths that Jesus is Lord," because they seen here addressing Him as Lord and appear to be considering themselves "saved" because of their belief in Him. He clearly tells them that that's not enough.

Last edited by Katzpur; 01-03-2014 at 02:25 PM..
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:24 PM
 
63,815 posts, read 40,099,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
But what about these passages, jimmiej:

[SIZE=3][/SIZE]Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into thekingdom of heaven; but he that doeth thewill of my Father which is in heaven.
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he becamethe author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
And what about Matthew 25:41-46 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Those on the Savior's left had also, at some point, "confessed with their mouths that Jesus is Lord," because they seen here addressing Him as Lord and appear to be considering themselves "saved" because of their belief in Him. He clearly tells them that that's not enough.
Well done, Katz!!!
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
28,098 posts, read 29,970,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Well done, Katz!!!
Thank you, Mystic, but I've got to admit I'm confused. You've always said that nothing we do or do not do will have an affect on our salvation. So I'm surprised at the compliment.

(Actually, when you get right down to it, I don't believe that we are "saved" by either our faith or our works. I believe we are "saved" by the grace of Jesus Christ but, having been saved by Him, are "sanctified/exalted" in accordance with our faithfulness to Him and our obedience to His commandments.)
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:36 PM
 
63,815 posts, read 40,099,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Thank you, Mystic, but I've got to admit I'm confused. You've always said that nothing we do or do not do will have an affect on our salvation. So I'm surprised at the compliment.
(Actually, when you get right down to it, I don't believe that we are "saved" by either our faith or our works. I believe we are "saved" by the grace of Jesus Christ but, having been saved by Him, are "sanctified/exalted" in accordance with our faithfulness to Him and our obedience to His commandments.)
You answered your own question, Katz. Everybody thinks that we need to be concerned about our salvation . . . but that is not our problem. Christ took care of that. Our problem is achieving sanctification under His love and grace through "love of God and each other." That is how our imperfections are covered (we resonate in harmony with Him) and we are spared having them refined out as dross by the Consuming Fire of God's pure love after death.
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,442 posts, read 12,793,000 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
But what about these passages, jimmiej:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

And what about Matthew 25:41-46 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Those on the Savior's left had also, at some point, "confessed with their mouths that Jesus is Lord," because they seen here addressing Him as Lord and appear to be considering themselves "saved" because of their belief in Him. He clearly tells them that that's not enough.
Good works are the evidence of salvation, not the means.
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Old 01-03-2014, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Fishers, IN
6,485 posts, read 12,537,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Good works are the evidence of salvation, not the means.
Should they not also stregthen our faith, which is essential to salvation?
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Old 01-03-2014, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
28,098 posts, read 29,970,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Good works are the evidence of salvation, not the means.
So suppose there are no good works? What does that mean? What about the person who confesses with his mouth that Jesus is the Christ, but makes no effort to be faithful and obedient?
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Old 01-03-2014, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,442 posts, read 12,793,000 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
So suppose there are no good works? What does that mean? What about the person who confesses with his mouth that Jesus is the Christ, but makes no effort to be faithful and obedient?
James 2 answers that question.

14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:12 PM
 
Location: california
7,321 posts, read 6,928,039 times
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One whom has repented of his self govern, and desperately seeks God's govern.
First, through the devotion to Jesus Christ and His word.
Secondly through the tutelage of the Holy Spirit, Jesus provides His believers in His place.
There is no greater service, and worship to God, than to obey Him personally .
One cannot obey some one that do not know, nor can they hear, nor trust.
Hence men whom claim Jesus but do not obey Him are still in sin. Matthew 7;21,22,23,
Man's Intellect is a distraction, not certification of God's approval.
Obedience however supersedes all other forms of knowledge.
God does not play by man rules ,He is creator ,not the created.
The Holy Spirit reenforces the things Jesus taught and gives guidance in all other aspects of life and the things that are expected of the individual .
If I choose to ignore God, I sin.
I am righteous, only when I obey Him.
"Except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees you will in no case enter the kingdom of heaven." (Jesus)
That is a command to be righteous, not an assumption any other way.
Every one will be Judged according to their work (righteousness)(Obedience).
Just because Men included Paul's teaching, does not make his word, God's word.
A compromise to Jesus gospel, is still a compromise, and God does not compromise with sin, then, now, or ever.
Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life .No man comes to the Father but by Me. " John 14;6.
Paul pits his gospel against any other gospel .
I'm going with Jesus .
You go with whom you wish .
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