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And all you have to do to receive these 40 things is to believe that Jesus died for our sins, meaning that He paid the price, the penalty for our sins, ...
Many are very legalistic in passing out their judgments of others, AND "they know not what they do."
Repentence related to salvation is simply a change of mind about Christ. A person was an unbeliever but then heard the gospel and received Christ as Savior. He repented.
Mike, you referred to Eph. 2:8-9 [8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. You said that these verses proved that we are saved by faith alone. But you omitted verse [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
As St. James said in Jas. 2:[20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? [26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Greg Laure agrees with James.
Also St. John said in 1 John 2:[3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Mike, you referred to Eph. 2:8-9 [8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. You said that these verses proved that we are saved by faith alone. But you omitted verse [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
As St. James said in Jas. 2:[20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? [26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Greg Laure agrees with James.
Also St. John said in 1 John 2:[3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
I have been over this before. Since Ephesians 2:8-9 states that we are saved by grace through faith, and not by works (and this is with reference to being saved from the penalty of sin which is spiritual death or separation from God), then Paul did not immediately turn around in the very next verse and say that works are necessary to be saved, thus contradicting himself. He obviously meant something else in verse 10.
While the believer should produce good works (Ephesians 2:10), works are not a requirement to be eternally saved (Ephesians 2:8-9).
James was not talking about the issue of eternal salvation. He was writing to believers. They were already eternally saved. He was urging his readers to have a productive spiritual life. He was not telling them that that they were never saved if they didn't have a productive spiritual life. The dead faith of which James spoke was not a faith which had never existed, but was simply unproductive in terms of how an eternally saved believer should live. A believer should have a productive spiritual life. Not a nonproductive spiritual life.
And this is all covered in the lessons I provided in the original post.
The website address on the original post will not be up after next week.
So if you are interested in listening to those lessons which is the very reason I posted this thread, then use the new address which is open now. Dean Bible Ministries - Salvation (2002)
Many are very legalistic in passing out their judgments of others, AND "they know not what they do."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
I have been over this before. Since Ephesians 2:8-9 states that we are saved by grace through faith, and not by works (and this is with reference to being saved from the penalty of sin which is spiritual death or separation from God), then Paul did not immediately turn around in the very next verse and say that works are necessary to be saved, thus contradicting himself. He obviously meant something else in verse 10.
While the believer should produce good works (Ephesians 2:10), works are not a requirement to be eternally saved (Ephesians 2:8-9).
WE have nothing to do with being eternally saved, period. Christ DID that for us. The idea that Christ needs us to help Him save us is just silly. Our only concern is achieving sanctification under His love for us all. That means trying to emulate His love for us all as much as possible . . . however imperfectly. We are to try to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. That's it! We don;t have to try to believe any specific set of beliefs about Christ or God . . . because we do not control what we TRULY believe. God the Father does. We can't come to Christ except that the Father call us. Thinking we have any control over that is just human vanity and hubris. But everyone who loves is of God because God IS love.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 02-21-2014 at 12:38 PM..
WE have nothing to do with being eternally saved, period. Christ DID that for us. The idea that Christ needs us to help Him save us is just silly. Our only concern is achieving sanctification under His love for us all. That means trying to emulate His love for us all as much as possible . . . however imperfectly. We are to try to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. That's it! We don;t have to try to believe any specific set of beliefs about Christ or God . . . because we do not control what we TRULY believe. God the Father does. We can't come to Christ except that the Father call us. Thinking we have any control over that is just human vanity and hubris. But everyone who loves is of God because God IS love.
No one receives the free gift of eternal life until they personally place their faith in Christ in response to the gospel as the Bible states.
I have already been over this with you in posts# 67, 69, 71, 72, 73, 74, 76, 81, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, and 90.
I have been over this before. Since Ephesians 2:8-9 states that we are saved by grace through faith, and not by works (and this is with reference to being saved from the penalty of sin which is spiritual death or separation from God), then Paul did not immediately turn around in the very next verse and say that works are necessary to be saved, thus contradicting himself. He obviously meant something else in verse 10.
While the believer should produce good works (Ephesians 2:10), works are not a requirement to be eternally saved (Ephesians 2:8-9).
James was not talking about the issue of eternal salvation. He was writing to believers. They were already eternally saved. He was urging his readers to have a productive spiritual life. He was not telling them that that they were never saved if they didn't have a productive spiritual life. The dead faith of which James spoke was not a faith which had never existed, but was simply unproductive in terms of how an eternally saved believer should live. A believer should have a productive spiritual life. Not a nonproductive spiritual life.
And this is all covered in the lessons I provided in the original post.
The website address on the original post will not be up after next week.
So if you are interested in listening to those lessons which is the very reason I posted this thread, then use the new address which is open now. Dean Bible Ministries - Salvation (2002)
But you people will always declare when witnessing a spiritual person doing for God that he is working for his salvation. __which reveals so much about your doctrine.
But you people will always declare when witnessing a spiritual person doing for God that he is working for his salvation. __which reveals so much about your doctrine.
Not true at all. A distinction is to be made between works as part of the believer's spiritual life, and doing works because you think you have to in order to earn your salvation. A big difference.
I have been over this before. Since Ephesians 2:8-9 states that we are saved by grace through faith, and not by works (and this is with reference to being saved from the penalty of sin which is spiritual death or separation from God), then Paul did not immediately turn around in the very next verse and say that works are necessary to be saved, thus contradicting himself. He obviously meant something else in verse 10.
While the believer should produce good works (Ephesians 2:10), works are not a requirement to be eternally saved (Ephesians 2:8-9).
James was not talking about the issue of eternal salvation. He was writing to believers. They were already eternally saved. He was urging his readers to have a productive spiritual life. He was not telling them that that they were never saved if they didn't have a productive spiritual life. The dead faith of which James spoke was not a faith which had never existed, but was simply unproductive in terms of how an eternally saved believer should live. A believer should have a productive spiritual life. Not a nonproductive spiritual life.
And this is all covered in the lessons I provided in the original post.
The website address on the original post will not be up after next week.
So if you are interested in listening to those lessons which is the very reason I posted this thread, then use the new address which is open now. Dean Bible Ministries - Salvation (2002)
I think there are 2 separate issues here:
1) Keeping the Commandments. And if you don't actually do...you are a liar if you claim to know and be with Christ
1 JOHN 2:3 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
AND
2) Good Works which would ADD to the basic keeping of the commandments.
I think the interesting thing is that it is just about impossible to live an entire life without making some positive or negative impact. Every thought and action is not neutral. It is either inspired from a good spiritual intention and motivation or not, depending on who you are connected to spiritually. Some things which seem to be neutral, like cooking, are actually GOOD things. You can cook dinner for someone every night, and that is also good works, if you are doing it because you care about that person. Good works don't have to be some big giant ordeal or sacrifice. It's just a way of looking at life. You can be a Vitamin in this life, or a Toxin. Those who love Christ bear good fruit and are Nutritious to the rest of the Body. They automatically do good works because of their love for him. Not keeping the Commandments should be a sign to anyone though that something might be wrong with their real relationship with the Lord.
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