What do Mormons really believe? Let's discuss Mormonism!!! (Sodom, sinned, Israel)

[coolcats]

Please explain this. I fail to see how you have determined that this is an absolute requirement. I honestly want to know the basis by which you have made the trinity your defining characteristic. By my definition, like the word implies, to be a Christian means you accept Christ has your savior to overcome the sins that separate you from God. You are correct in that we do not believe in the trinity as you define it. We believe the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one in purpose, but not one being.

[MomtoFour]

Originally Posted by annibelle

Okay, in all fairness, I'm rereading the quote. Now, help me understand. How can you, not a member, say what we don't believe or possibly don't even know about or how we think now?

Well. I was a Mormon for 30 years. My mother is Mormon. My siblings are Mormon. My nieces and nephews are Mormon. My Grandmother is Mormon. My husband's family is all Mormon. I have Mormon friends. In short, I know lots of Mormons. And I talk about religion with lots of Mormons. I know that they don't all agree with every statement made by Brigham Young or Bruce R. McConkie, for example.

Originally Posted by annibelle

You can't come on the board, make broad generalizations about what lds believe and then when I, and lds person, respond to it, get snippity.

The "broad generalization" I made was that if someone posts a quote by a past church leader it may not accurately reflect what the church teaches today. And some of these quotes contain thoughts not familiar to many current members. I hesitate to give examples because you are so quick to accuse people of distorting Mormon beliefs. But I stand by that statement as being both accurate and fair.

Originally Posted by annibelle

Of course , you have a right to your views, but you seem unwilling to accept mine, an acutal lds person, who would know better than you. We don't have to agree, but what I'm saying is that whose view is more valid? Your views are valid, but how much meat do they have if you are not a member?

This we've been around and around on. We've both stated our case and clearly aren't getting anywhere.

[bigthirsty]

Originally Posted by b. frank

I'd rather read about more peaceful topics like homosexuality and evolution.

Post of the year!!

[twin.spin]

Originally Posted by coolcats

If you haven’t taken the time to read his posts, please do. I find his tone to be Christian in name only, and not in deed.

I have read all the posts (3 times) and was trying to have annibelle realize that the thread was coming from the "really" believe view point and probably most of the other posters realized it as well, as you have stated correctly. So it should not have come as a surprise to have responses elaborating that view. Just as if a [really "believe" ] thread was started, it would not be no shock that the majority posts be of that view.
As far as "Chritian name only, not in deed" -- I don't have the ability to be able to judge Ministers heart and actions soley based on this forum --
-----probably just another suggestion Jesus made " Don't judge or you"ll be judged as well" like the "Be perfect" I keep having logical fallicies about --

Originally Posted by coolcats

Speaking of critical thinking, did you ever answer why you posted so many out-of-context scriptures that were proven to contain logical fallacies?

If it didn't appear so is because your accusation / inference of "posted so many out-of-context scriptures that were proven to contain logical fallacies" is purely one of subjection.
Again this forum thread is about " "really" believe". Not that you can't post your thoughts, but in this thread, it is not I who need to disprove any logical fallacies that you believe exist.

Originally Posted by coolcats

the dictionaries you posted yesterday. A reference should be value neutral, and contain input from multiple sources. Yours clearly was biased toward the Nicean Trinitarian Evangelical view.

1)Excuse me, but since when does the person who starts a new thread consults the opposite viewpoint before hand about the standards of what is biased?
2)If I were to record (which I am) the replies that you (coolcats), sergeant, and annibelle make in all your posts for 10 years, would not that be a true representation of your beliefs? Beliefs that can be quoted? At some point, the merry-go-round has to stop.

Originally Posted by annibelle

(answer) The major problem of witnessing to ANYONE is that you shouldn't do it unless the person is actually interested....... So, it is irritating when folks of other faiths witness to me and tell me what I believe is wrong when I didn't even ask them and I'm not looking for another faith.

What? So please explain that again without inpugning the ultimate goal of the LDS missionaries at my door?

Originally Posted by annibelle

I'm only on this board "witnessing" to others about my faith because that is what the board is about, my faith.

----- "He places his emphasis with the latter of the two options you provided." (option 2 was "salvation, procreation, grace" what do they really believe?) quoted by coolcats 1:45pm thread # 296 thats what this board is about, which we both agree on.
((Sergeant, I hope quoting coolcats doesn't make that National Inquirer material? !!))

Originally Posted by annibelle

If the Methodist Church started to call themselves "LDS" or "Mormon" and still preached the Methodist faith, do you not think Mormons would object?

(answer) No, because it's already done by a few other churches not by Methodist though, but by break off churches. We are taught by our leaders to focus on what we believe, not say anything hateful about them. We're not even allowed to discuss them.

"break off churches" meaning from the LDS? I can assure you that it would be impossible for "Christianity" to have broken away from LDS and vise versa. They are totally different from each other. More likely, if one was found to be in the other, somebody would have been shown the exit.

Not objecting? you don't quite convince

[zimbabwe]

Preterist:

After reading your posts it is clear that the LDS faith, in your opinion, does not qualify to be labeled Christian. As Coolcats said you are welcome to your opinion. We choose to believe differently.

If I read you words correctly, you have many issues with LDS doctrine. But the main thing in your mind is that we do not accept the Trinity as defined by the Nicean Creed. Am I correct?

You indicate that a lot of Christian churches differ on many different doctrines, but as long as they accept the view of the Trinity as expressed in mainline Christianity they can be called Christian. If they don't, they do not qualify as Christian.

Have I stated your position correctly? Please answer briefly because I don't want to go down rabbit trails about all the different doctrines we have as Mormons etc. I know you will be tempted to go on about many things but stay with me on this, because I have a followup question.

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

((Sergeant, I hope quoting coolcats doesn't make that National Inquirer material? !!))

You have twice alluded to LDS publications as the "National Inquirer." You will win over few hearts with such disrespect.

[zimbabwe]

Preterist:

Sorry, I don't have time to wait for your answer. I hope you don't mind if I ask my follow-up questions.

How do you reconcile so many passages in the Bible where Jesus prays to His "Father in Heaven", in front of others and in private?

How do you reconcile the Trinity doctrine with the fact that Jesus refers to His "Father" as "His God"? Is He the God of Himself?

In the new Testament we have record of the three members of the Godhead manifest at once--after the baptism of Jesus Christ--the Holy Ghost coming down as a dove, Jesus in the water with John, and the voice God the Father from heaven saying, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased". Was Jesus playing a trick on the people? Was he pleased with Himself and used ventriloquism to make it sound like it was coming from heaven? The same thing essentially occurred in the mount of transfiguration.

Later in the book of Acts, Stephan the disciple saw Jesus standing on the right hand of God. For this "blasphemy" he was stoned to death. Was Stephan waxing metaphorical even in the throes of death? Perhaps this was a metaphorical manifestation of God to Stephan? Surely God cannot stand on the right hand of Himself, can He? I could give you many more examples, but I think you know what I am asking. How do you reconcile these many passages of scripture with your belief in the Trinity-- that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are one person?

You might be tempted to give me the oft quoted scriptures that could be construed, in my opinion, to support your view of the Trinity. Please don't. We all know those. I want to know how you reconcile your interpretation of the scriptures with the examples above.

[annibelle]

[quote=MomtoFour;2522543]Well. I was a Mormon for 30 years. My mother is Mormon. My siblings are Mormon. My nieces and nephews are Mormon. My Grandmother is Mormon. My husband's family is all Mormon. I have Mormon friends. In short, I know lots of Mormons. And I talk about religion with lots of Mormons.

answer:
And I know lot's of muslims. I have them in my family, but if someone is interested in Islam, why should I try to be to middle man (like you're trying to be) and try to teach info to others about Islam instead of just saying to folks, "hey, if you want to know about Islam, don't ask me, I'm not muslim, go to a muslim leader or a real muslim who lives it and talk to them because since I'm not muslim I can't actually tell you about what they really believe." I don't like when ex mormons don't leave the church alone. Of course its your choice, but it's not fair. I don't understand when ex mormons don't want to be mormon, don't want to live mormon, don't want to come to church and want the church to leave them alone, but they want to TEACH mormonism. You are not strange, but the idea of it all is strange.

The "broad generalization"

answer: The problem is that while I know what you're talking about, people who want to know about our church don't. So, when you make that broad generalization, you're not helping anyone understand the religion, you hurt it. Because folks will read what you've said, believe it and begin interpreting it incorrectly. They'll look at it and think, wow mormons can't even agree on what they believe. I'm not trying to mean, but I guess this comes out that way. I still don't understand why, if you don't want to be a member, it's important to you to attempt to teach what you refuse to live? Of course, none of us are perfect, but it would just seem so hypocritical of me if I left the lds church but wanted to go about trying to teach what lds believe and what they don't believe. You're not asking questions, you're actually trying to teach it. Im joking here, but since you like teaching what we believe so much, why don't you just come back, get a calling in primary or gospel doctrine then? There are plenty of callings the church for you to actually teach. But, it's like, do you even really know what you believe? You don't believe in the lds doctrine, you don't go to church - so what do you do? Go online and teach others about what you used to believe or sort of believe? This is strange.

[spm62]

Originally Posted by jcsam

Ok, I apologize if I offend anyone. Not my intentions here.

Bottome line is this, To be Christain you MUST believe The Trinity, that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are ONE IN THE SAME! No and, if's or buts! No exceptions. Sorry that's just the way it is. Mormons don't believe this.

Scripture please

On another note, I've searched this Thread for a certain word; Repent. To be saved you must REPENT trust the savior, and turn from sin, confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. This is a very important concept to remember.

According to your previous statement you must also believe in the trinity to be saved. So which is correct? What God`s word says or your personal belief that in addition to what God said ie.. confessing and believing ..you must also believe in a trinity?

I will end in saying this: Because we live in the great country we're allowed to worship whomever we please. Not so in other countries we know this. I often use the "What If" game with people I talk to. What If I'm right and your wrong? I'll be in a great place while you will not. Your choice!

It`s not a game about being right. You are no better,smarter,or more discerning than anybody else. If you are saved it`s because God opened your eyes to his truth. You didn`t open them all on your own. Left up to your own wisdom and devices you wouldn`t have anything to do with God. So why do you suppose God opened your eyes to the truth and didn`t do it for everyone? Was there something special about you? If God opened your eyes why won`t he do it for everyone? The answer is he will....praise God!

[twin.spin]

Originally Posted by coolcats

You have twice alluded to LDS publications as the "National Inquirer." You will win over few hearts with such disrespect.

Sorry Coolcats, don't take too seriously. just quoting sergeant in a different post about me-----
"I wouldn't bother, Mom; it only took me about three seconds to find significant errors. I’m beginning to think Twin works in the research department of the National Enquirer."