Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Like with many (too many) doctrinal practices the catholic church simply perceived that if Peter is the root of the building of Gods church then let me se now hmmmm that must mean that Peter successors are infallible in their church related doctrine and interpretation (inspired by God ) Yeah that's the ticket!!! The "Bishop of Rome" is really the Cardinal of Rome
aka Pope the head of the Catholic church via the Papacy.
I'm leaving the forum. How is it, so many of you are allowed to trash, disrespect and misrepresent the Catholic Church and it's members, is beyond me. I had 78 out of my first 100 posts removed from reportedly changing the subject...while I don't remember one thread ever being titled in respect to the trashing that many of you have done. Which of course proves that that you can play under a different set of rules.
You are sadly mistaken. I have had and continue to have many of my posts deleted for various reasons. The moderators here are extremely fair and objective. They simply won't let us denigrate each other or change the topic as stated in the OP. I will miss you, brother. Your zeal for the RCC as an institution is misplaced IMO . . . but we share many things as followers of Christ. To the extent that your views tend to the dogmatic and fundamentalist variety . . . we will differ greatly. But some things are true regardless. We have a number of free thinkers here who follow Christ . . . but not dogma or the "precepts and doctrines of men." Authoritarians (which you seem to be) prefer to follow some authority rather than think and reason on their own about these issues. That can make this a very uncomfortable place. I am sorry you feel the need to leave.
You are sadly mistaken. I have had and continue to have many of my posts deleted for various reasons. The moderators here are extremely fair and objective. They simply won't let us denigrate each other or change the topic as stated in the OP. I will miss you, brother. Your zeal for the RCC as an institution is misplaced IMO . . . but we share many things as followers of Christ. To the extent that your views tend to the dogmatic and fundamentalist variety . . . we will differ greatly. But some things are true regardless. We have a number of free thinkers here who follow Christ . . . but not dogma or the "precepts and doctrines of men." Authoritarians (which you seem to be) prefer to follow some authority rather than think and reason on their own about these issues. That can make this a very uncomfortable place. I am sorry you feel the need to leave.
And all other religions do the same thing. However, our church is the original and many things are based on tradition which is incomprehensible to Sola Scriptura folks.
You are sadly mistaken. I have had and continue to have many of my posts deleted for various reasons. The moderators here are extremely fair and objective. They simply won't let us denigrate each other or change the topic as stated in the OP. I will miss you, brother. Your zeal for the RCC as an institution is misplaced IMO . . . but we share many things as followers of Christ. To the extent that your views tend to the dogmatic and fundamentalist variety . . . we will differ greatly. But some things are true regardless. We have a number of free thinkers here who follow Christ . . . but not dogma or the "precepts and doctrines of men." Authoritarians (which you seem to be) prefer to follow some authority rather than think and reason on their own about these issues. That can make this a very uncomfortable place. I am sorry you feel the need to leave.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658
You misunderstand Catholicism!
I disagree and it would seem the premier dogmatist, Carson does too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRCarson
In the event that anyone lurking might be interested in a better understanding of why dogma is a good thing, here are some working definitions:
Dogma, Doctrine, Discipline and Devotion
Dogma
A dogma is 1) a divinely revealed truth which 2) has been proclaimed as such by the infallible teaching authority of the Church.
1) A dogma must be found explicitly or implicitly in the deposit of faith given to the Church by Jesus in Sacred Scripture and/or Sacred Tradition.
2) A dogma must be infallibly taught by the Church as divinely revealed.
All dogmas are infallibly taught as divinely revealed truths, but not all infallibly defined truths are taught as divinely revealed. In the latter case, the infallibly taught truth would not be considered a dogma.
Doctrine
A doctrine is a way of understanding divine revelation and which is taught authoritatively by the Magisterium of the Church. Doctrine may be defined either infallibly or non-infallibly. All dogmas are doctrines, but not all doctrines are dogmas.
Discipline
A discipline is a rule of the Church which requires obedience due to the authority given to the Church by Jesus. Disciplines may be changed during the course of history based upon the needs of the Church. Examples of Church disciplines include fasting during Lent and the celibacy of priests in the Latin rite.
Devotion
A devotion is a religious exercise or practice other than the regular corporate worship of a congregation. Devotions directed toward God are rightly called worship while devotions directed toward saints are classified as veneration.
I disagree and it would seem the premier dogmatist, Carson does too.
Would you tell an Irish Catholic, a Polish Catholic, an Italian Catholic or a Jew "your cultural heritage is wrong?"
Catholicism is much more than one of these recent Protestant Sola Scriptura sects.
Quote:
“I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.”
― Albert Camus
This is what my wife when someone tells her there is no God or when someone challenges Catholicism. And she is no fanatic, she accepts all other religions and atheists ( as well as I do).
Would you tell an Irish Catholic, a Polish Catholic, an Italian Catholic or a Jew "your cultural heritage is wrong?"
Catholicism is much more than one of these recent Protestant Sola Scriptura sects.
No one is judging anyone's cultural heritage. It seems to me that the fundamentalist Catholics can be just as misguided as the Sola Scriptura fundamentalist Protestants, Julian . . . eg. Carson. The Protestants just use the Bible the way Carson uses the RCC . . . as their ultimate authority . . . instead of Christ. Christ alone is the ultimate authority and He abides with us. Too many apparently do not believe that. We have His Holy Spirit (Comforter) available within our consciousness to guide us to what God has "written in our hearts" under the New Covenant. Those who rely on the Church or Bible for guidance instead of Christ and their heart in "love of God and each other" are denying the New Covenant and relying on words "written in ink" . . . or in the case of Carson . . . self-appointed men. I will admit that one of the redeeming features of some Catholics I have known is their reliance on their own conscience (or heart) about some of the more divisive issues.
Quote:
This is what my wife when someone tells her there is no God or when someone challenges Catholicism. And she is no fanatic, she accepts all other religions and atheists ( as well as I do).
Not very likely. Been studying it for about 38 years now. I have that issue settled by the Holy Spirit in my soul. No need to question God about something He has confirmed to me.
You have just hit the nail on the head. YOU decided what it meant, so it should mean the same to everyone else. That is why we have so many Protestant churches. People translate the scriptures to fit their views. See why we need a head authority, like Jesus set it up to be?
Of course, Jesus knew the Holy Spirit would help those in authority when they debated the issues. They had councils that lasted, some for many years, to debate, but in the end they looked to the head authority to settle the issue, just like we have the Supreme Court in our nation.
Yes, Jesus knew human nature needed a head authority for His church and set it up that way. You notice the Catholic Church is 2014 years old. I think Jesus knew what He was doing. Groups can break off but the main Church is still with us and will be til the end of time.
Petra is a feminine noun. Using that form of the word would be like me calling you Natalie instead of Nate.
I don't think you understand how nouns are used in 'foreign' languages. In the Greek [as well as French and Spanish] all nouns are either masculine or feminine. Does this mean that when a noun is feminine that means it's a female? No!
It simply means that Christ was distinguishing between two different 'rocks,' the masc. noun petros refers to Peter and the fem. noun perta refers to something totally different.
"petra" occurs 4 times in the NT:
Matt. 16:18, "And I also say to you that you are Peter (petros), and upon this rock (petra) I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it."
Matt. 27:60, "and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock (petra); and he rolled a large stone against the entrance of the tomb and went away."
1 Cor. 10:4, "and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock (petras) which followed them; and the rock (petra) was Christ."
1 Pet. 2:8, speaking of Jesus says that he is "A stone of stumbling and a rock (petra) of offense"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed."
Here's a similar example in French. Nouns are shown which 'gender' they are by either la, or le.
Example: 'pen' is feminine; la plume, the word "pencil" is masculine;le crayon, and the word "life" is fem.; la vie. Does this mean than that the pen is a female, the pencil is male, and life is a female.? Of course not.
So to say the noun fem. noun 'petra' can only be used to mean a female is incorrect.
And BTW, the word 'spirit' in the Hebrew is feminine. Does this then mean the Holy Spirit is a woman? You see how silly your quote above is?
Last edited by mshipmate; 04-22-2014 at 10:07 PM..
You have just hit the nail on the head. YOU decided what it meant, so it should mean the same to everyone else. That is why we have so many Protestant churches. People translate the scriptures to fit their views. See why we need a head authority, like Jesus set it up to be?
Of course, Jesus knew the Holy Spirit would help those in authority when they debated the issues. They had councils that lasted, some for many years, to debate, but in the end they looked to the head authority to settle the issue, just like we have the Supreme Court in our nation.
Yes, Jesus knew human nature needed a head authority for His church and set it up that way. You notice the Catholic Church is 2014 years old. I think Jesus knew what He was doing. Groups can break off but the main Church is still with us and will be til the end of time.
No, I accepted what God means rather than man.
My church (the one Jesus built upon the rock of who He is) started (if we use your assumption that Jesus was born at 0 and we count years from that point) 1981 years ago.
So you claim your church began prior to Jesus starting His church? Why?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
