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Thank you for the link to the document. I have always believed that there had to be people within the Roman organization that have seen the truth besides Luther over the years.
This should come as no real surprise, and it is nothing new that even Catholic theologians have had disagreements with the official church positions through the years.
What matters is what the Church finally declares as infallible teaching.
This should come as no real surprise, and it is nothing new that even Catholic theologians have had disagreements with the official church positions through the years.
What matters is what the Church finally declares as infallible teaching.
According to the laws of the Catholic Church no teaching is infallible without the majority of the Church fathers agreeing as to what is the truth. Therefore it cannot be an infallible teaching that Peter is the rock.
Unfortuntely, none of the Early Church Fathers was individually infallible (unless they were also Pope, but let's set that aside for a moment).
What is true is that the Church listens carefully to all of her sons...and then she infallibly chooses which of them speaks the truth on a particular doctrinal matter. The others, in turn, accept the decision of the Church in humility or find themselves in heresy or schism.
That is not how church law works in designating what is the truth and what isn't. Like I said, and what Kenrick said is that according to ecclesiastical law of the Catholic Church, the majority of church fathers is needed to determine the truth, not a minority.
For instance the majority of church fathers held that the rock was the confession Peter made that Jesus was the Christ the Son of the living God. Coadjutor then Ordinary of the archdiocese of St. Louis from 1841 to 1895, Peter Richard Kenrick confronted the Catholic Pope in his day concerning ecclesiastical law which the church is *supposed* to be bound by, that no theology is the truth without the majority of church fathers agreeing as to what the truth is.
He showed that according to the majority of church fathers that it was the faith Peter expressed that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, was the rock that Jesus built the church on.
The Catholic church merely dismissed him with the wave of the hand. So much for ecclesiastical law.
According to the laws of the Catholic Church no teaching is infallible without the majority of the Church fathers agreeing as to what is the truth. Therefore it cannot be an infallible teaching that Peter is the rock.
This is factually incorrect. The Early Church Fathers have nothing to do with infallibility, but they are a great source of insight into what the Catholic Church believed in its earliest days.
The pope is individually individually infallible and may speak ex cathedra on any issue.
Additionally, all ecumenical councils ratified by the pope are also infallible.
Therefore, after Kenrick lost his battle against infallibility of the pope (because a majority of the bishops disagreed with him), papal infallibility was defined by an infallible Church council.
That is not how church law works in designating what is the truth and what isn't. Like I said, and what Kenrick said is that according to ecclesiastical law of the Catholic Church, the majority of church fathers is needed to determine the truth, not a minority.
If by Fathers you mean the "living" fathers, the Cardinals and bishops who attend ecumenical councils, then yes.
A majority support papal infallibility which was defined in 1870. Kenrick was in the minority and his position did not prevail.
The pope is individually individually infallible and may speak ex cathedra on any issue.
Additionally, all ecumenical councils ratified by the pope are also infallible.
Therefore, after Kenrick lost his battle against infallibility of the pope (because a majority of the bishops disagreed with him), papal infallibility was defined by an infallible Church council.
Of course when extremely fallible human beings can declare themselves infallible, especially by consensus it MUST be true, right???
If by Fathers you mean the "living" fathers, the Cardinals and bishops who attend ecumenical councils, then yes.
A majority support papal infallibility which was defined in 1870. Kenrick was in the minority and his position did not prevail.
I'm sorry but you still don't get it. Kenrick was a, how shall I say, professional person in the Catholic church. He knew Catholic law. He knew what was meant by "church fathers" as it pertains to Peter being either the rock or the faith he professed. He knew it meant the church fathers of record as far back as one can go and what they believed as to that verse. The majority believed it was about the faith Peter professed that was the rock and not Peter himself.
Since the RCC over the years has supposedly declared it the infallible truth that Peter was the rock, this proves the Catholic church is fallible.
I'm sorry but you still don't get it. Kenrick was a, how shall I say, professional person in the Catholic church. He knew Catholic law. He knew what was meant by "church fathers" as it pertains to Peter being either the rock or the faith he professed. He knew it meant the church fathers of record as far back as one can go and what they believed as to that verse. The majority believed it was about the faith Peter professed that was the rock and not Peter himself.
Since the RCC over the years has supposedly declared it the infallible truth that Peter was the rock, this proves the Catholic church is fallible.
It also proves that the doctrine was pushed in spite of knowledge that it was not true simply because it was a basis for claims to spurious authority, and the "big lie" technique was continued. CR, you asked who was involved in the conspiracy? The majority of the church hierarchy, clearly. Who carries it on? their dupes.
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