Why does the Roman Catholic Church believe that the Bishop of Rome is the exclusive and rightful successor to Peter? (ritual, sin)
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You can baptize yourself? I never heard of it. Can you receive communion on your own? Of course, I have grace but why not receive it over an over in the sacraments, etc? Receive a good thing as much as you can. It strengthens you.
The baptism of Christ is not with water and it is accomplished by the Holy Spirit. By all mans use ceremonies to remind you of the value of the community with God and man it is to be hoped you experience every day.
You can baptize yourself? I never heard of it. Can you receive communion on your own? Of course, I have grace but why not receive it over an over in the sacraments, etc? Receive a good thing as much as you can. It strengthens you.
It is a blind spot for anyone devoted any one religion ... but why would you assume that the RCC has exclusive ownership of holy sacraments? I can and have been baptized, receive the bread and wine weekly, was married before God in the name of Christ, etc. I don't need the Roman Catholic Church for any of these things.
......... why would you assume that the RCC has exclusive ownership of holy sacraments?
I don't believe that Janelle was necessarily saying that the Roman Catholic Church has a monopoly on these things, though possible it is restricted to churches which are in communion with them such as Eastern Orthodox. I'll let her answer that part. It may even be that What Julian notes as far as recognition of others as Christians even though "in error" might apply.
What she was answering is my assertion that "sacraments" are only ceremonial illustrations or heightened demonstration of the grace we should be experiencing every day. My point is that the "sacraments" have no power on their own but what WE endow them with. In other words, God does not deal in magic and does not perform on order as innate power of :"sacraments" would indicate.
I don't believe that Janelle was necessarily saying that the Roman Catholic Church has a monopoly on these things, though possible it is restricted to churches which are in communion with them such as Eastern Orthodox. I'll let her answer that part. It may even be that What Julian notes as far as recognition of others as Christians even though "in error" might apply.
What she was answering is my assertion that "sacraments" are only ceremonial illustrations or heightened demonstration of the grace we should be experiencing every day. My point is that the "sacraments" have no power on their own but what WE endow them with. In other words, God does not deal in magic and does not perform on order as innate power of :"sacraments" would indicate.
Life is nothing but rituals.
Yes, the CC is loaded with rituals and traditions and they enrich the spirit. No one puts on a better show than the CC.
You favor a system with no ceremonies or rituals. I think you will soon find out you are incorrect. You cannot exist in a vacuum.
The baptism of Christ is not with water and it is accomplished by the Holy Spirit. By all means use ceremonies to remind you of the value of the community with God and man it is to be hoped you experience every day.
Amen! It is a lifelong process of following the Comforter's (Holy Spirit's) guidance and trying to "love God and each other" daily and repent when you don't. No magic rituals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
It is a blind spot for anyone devoted any one religion ... but why would you assume that the RCC has exclusive ownership of holy sacraments? I can and have been baptized, receive the bread and wine weekly, was married before God in the name of Christ, etc. I don't need the Roman Catholic Church for any of these things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
I don't believe that Janelle was necessarily saying that the Roman Catholic Church has a monopoly on these things, though possible it is restricted to churches which are in communion with them such as Eastern Orthodox. I'll let her answer that part. It may even be that What Julian notes as far as recognition of others as Christians even though "in error" might apply.
What she was answering is my assertion that "sacraments" are only ceremonial illustrations or heightened demonstration of the grace we should be experiencing every day. My point is that the "sacraments" have no power on their own but what WE endow them with. In other words, God does not deal in magic and does not perform on order as innate power of :"sacraments" would indicate.
Amen! God does not traffic in magic. Our salvation has noting to do with us. Jesus did that. But we have to earn our sanctification daily by overcoming and enduring to the end in "love of God and each other."
I don't believe that Janelle was necessarily saying that the Roman Catholic Church has a monopoly on these things, though possible it is restricted to churches which are in communion with them such as Eastern Orthodox. I'll let her answer that part. It may even be that What Julian notes as far as recognition of others as Christians even though "in error" might apply.
What she was answering is my assertion that "sacraments" are only ceremonial illustrations or heightened demonstration of the grace we should be experiencing every day. My point is that the "sacraments" have no power on their own but what WE endow them with. In other words, God does not deal in magic and does not perform on order as innate power of :"sacraments" would indicate.
I think sacraments (or ordinances or rituals or whatever you want to call them) can be an excellent focal point. Baptism, especially by immersion, contains excellent symbolism as does the bread and wine. This can assist our limited, distractable mortal mind in connecting and/or reconnecting with God. But you are 100% correct. When it is my turn to teach on the topic of ordinances, I've often put it like this: "If you are baptized but don't actually mean anything by it then all you've done is found an elaborate way of getting wet. Is you take the bread and wine without meaning anything by it, then you're just eating bread and wine. Just a ritualized snack really."
Yes, the CC is loaded with rituals and traditions and they enrich the spirit. No one puts on a better show than the CC.
You favor a system with no ceremonies or rituals. I think you will soon find out you are incorrect. You cannot exist in a vacuum.
The classic Protestant objection has always been that Catholicism seems to have invented a seemingly limitless number of rituals that clearly did not exist in the earliest days of the Church. You're reformers were calling for less ritual and more meaningful communion with God. Their primary concern is quite valid: Too much ritual often tends to lead to empty and useless rituals.
Personally, I'm fine with ritualism if it brings you closer to God. Like I said, the mortal human mind is distractible and ritual can be an excellent focal point for mortals to better connect with God.
You favor a system with no ceremonies or rituals. I think you will soon find out you are incorrect. You cannot exist in a vacuum.
Tell that to the Catholic hermits. There has been a tradition of VERY religious Catholics living lives of isolation, prayer and contemplation for hundreds and hundreds of years.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 04-26-2014 at 06:44 PM..
The classic Protestant objection has always been that Catholicism seems to have invented a seemingly limitless number of rituals that clearly did not exist in the earliest days of the Church. You're reformers were calling for less ritual and more meaningful communion with God. Their primary concern is quite valid: Too much ritual often tends to lead to empty and useless rituals.
Personally, I'm fine with ritualism if it brings you closer to God. Like I said, the mortal human mind is distractible and ritual can be an excellent focal point for mortals to better connect with God.
You have highlighted the true role of ritual, GOT . . . focusing the mind and heart on God. That is the benefit to us as it tunes our mind to God's "frequency" and "key" (which is agape love). I do not dismiss the role of ritual . . . just its tendency to focus users on magical thinking. There is no magic involved.
The same can be said about confession. If someone has done something really awful there is nothing wrong with confessing to a priest or a Protestant minister. The Catholic Church is not really that different from the Protestant religions.
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It is a lifelong process of following the Comforter's (Holy Spirit's) guidance and trying to "love God and each other" daily and repent when you don't. No magic rituals.