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Old 04-27-2014, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,920,829 times
Reputation: 1874

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Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
I can't tell you the history on the collar unless I do a search but I do know when people see it they are more likely to go up to the person and ask questions about God and that is a very good thing.
Well, that's why a Friend friend of mine wears "plain dress."

 
Old 04-27-2014, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Ohio
2,801 posts, read 2,309,800 times
Reputation: 1654
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
Thanks CR. Plus you can find the Catechism online and that would be free.

Also, you can to go EWTN Global Catholic Television Network: Catholic TV, Catholic Radio, and Catholic News and to catholic answer forums to do a search or ask questions.

It's so easy today to learn about things on the net but be careful to steer away from hate sites----on any subject.
And those sites you listed are not "hate" sites?
 
Old 04-27-2014, 11:42 PM
 
23,654 posts, read 17,511,041 times
Reputation: 7472
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMack View Post
And those sites you listed are not "hate" sites?
Why do you think they are hate sites?
 
Old 04-28-2014, 03:59 AM
 
1,030 posts, read 840,594 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
So what church do you belong to? I never read it if you posted that.
Oh, I am a Christian so I belong to the church Jesus built. No I don't mean your Roman church!

I don't need a man-made organization such as you do to serve God. I chose to do it the way Jesus set it up rather than add men of power and positions that Jesus never instituted. You see Jesus got it right to start with. As a member of His church I am secure in Him.
 
Old 05-01-2014, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,687 posts, read 6,734,867 times
Reputation: 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
Why do you think they are hate sites?
It's an interesting question. Both sides of the whole Protestant vs Catholic business are extremely passionate in their beliefs and assertions. This makes it very difficult to find information that has not been tainted/corrupted by one side or the other ... or both.

The best conclusion that I've been able to sort out to my original question: Why does the Roman Catholic Church believe that the Bishop of Rome is the exclusive and rightful successor to Peter?

Claiming succession from Peter was the Bishop of Rome's Ace in the hole, allowing him to claim the right to tell every other bishop and Christian what they could or could not do. So the Bishops of Rome had a very good reason to fabricate the claim. The likelihood of their claim to succession being true is slim to none, but at the end of the day it cannot ever be proven nor disproven. The RCC says that it is real and people like myself can beg to differ. The New Testament and firsthand non-Christian history is entirely silent on the entire question.

So the RCC cannot claim with absolute certainty that the Pope is the true and exclusive successor to Christ and Peter, but there is room for them to believe it is true. I'm satisfied with that. A Catholic can say, "We have Peter's direct successor, therefore we are the only true Church." But they can't actually know that. Petrine succession is not an established historical fact. It is a belief. And that's fine with me.
 
Old 05-01-2014, 03:01 PM
 
15 posts, read 11,948 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
I

I don't actually believe the Rome or Antioch inherited Peter's authority, but since you do then that's probably an important thing for you to consider.

I appreciate the video but I think it's very targeted at traditional Protestants and not at Restorationist-minded folk like myself. It creates more questions than answers for somebody like me.
It is rooted in the Tradition, the Jews and on to today and is in the Bible.

From Numbers:

18 So the Lord said to Moses, “Take Joshua son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit of leadership,[a] and lay your hand on him. 19 Have him stand before Eleazar the priest and the entire assembly and commission him in their presence. 20 Give him some of your authority so the whole Israelite community will obey him. 21 He is to stand before Eleazar the priest, who will obtain decisions for him by inquiring of the Urim before the Lord. At his command he and the entire community of the Israelites will go out, and at his command they will come in.”

22 Moses did as the Lord commanded him. He took Joshua and had him stand before Eleazar the priest and the whole assembly. 23 Then he laid his hands on him and commissioned him, as the Lord instructed through Moses.


From Acts 1:

20 “For,” said Peter, “it is written in the Book of Psalms:

“‘May his place be deserted;
let there be no one to dwell in it,’[e]
and,

“‘May another take his place of leadership.’[f]


The instructions of Paul:
In Titus 1:5, Paul tells Titus: "For this cause I left thee in Crete, that thou shouldst set in order the things that are wanting, and shouldst ordain priests in every city, as I also appointed thee."
St. Timothy - "As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine..." (1 Tim. 1:3)


1 Tim. 5:19-22: Pass it on!
This gift of the Holy Spirit, through the laying on of hands in ordination, was something Paul instructed Timothy to pass on in the future. Part of his duty as a bishop-evangelist was to ordain elders in different congregations. He tells Timothy he must exercise this ministry carefully, lest he ordain a priest unworthy of the office. In 1 Timothy 5:19-22 he tells the young evangelist: "Never admit any charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear. . . . Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, nor participate in another man's sins; keep yourself pure."


The purpose:

From Clement of Rome:

First Clement: Clement of Rome

1Clem 42:4 So preaching everywhere in country and town, they appointed their firstfruits, when they had proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons unto them that should believe.
1Clem 44:2 For this cause therefore, having received complete foreknowledge, they appointed the aforesaid persons, and afterwards they provided a continuance, that if these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed to their ministration.


St. Irenaeus explains how the Apostolic Tradition was to be found, to whom it was entrusted, and how it was preserved:

It is within the power of all, therefore, in every Church, who may wish to see the truth, to contemplate clearly the tradition of the apostles manifested throughout the whole world; and we are in a position to reckon up those who were by the apostles instituted bishops in the Churches, and [to demonstrate] the succession of these men to our own times; those who neither taught nor knew of anything like what these [heretics] rave about. For if the apostles had known hidden mysteries, which they were in the habit of imparting to “the perfect” apart and privily from the rest, they would have delivered them especially to those to whom they were also committing the Churches themselves. For they were desirous that these men should be very perfect and blameless in all things, whom also they were leaving behind as their successors, delivering up their own place of government to these men; which men, if they discharged their functions honestly, would be a great boon [to the Church], but if they should fall away, the direst calamity.
 
Old 05-01-2014, 03:14 PM
 
15 posts, read 11,948 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
It's an interesting question. Both sides of the whole Protestant vs Catholic business are extremely passionate in their beliefs and assertions. This makes it very difficult to find information that has not been tainted/corrupted by one side or the other ... or both.

The best conclusion that I've been able to sort out to my original question: Why does the Roman Catholic Church believe that the Bishop of Rome is the exclusive and rightful successor to Peter?

e.
Because it is what the early Church believed. On the contrary, it is actually accounted for in historical records:

Here are some quotes, you can actually check the actual writings and verify them if you wish:

Irenaeus
“The blessed apostles [Peter and Paul], having founded and built up the church [of Rome] . . . handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus” (Against Heresies 3:3:3 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian
“[T]his is the way in which the apostolic churches transmit their lists: like the church of the Smyrneans, which records that Polycarp was placed there by John, like the church of the Romans, where Clement was ordained by Peter” (Demurrer Against the Heretics 32:2 [A.D. 200]).
 
Old 05-01-2014, 03:16 PM
 
15 posts, read 11,948 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rightly Divided View Post
Oh, I am a Christian so I belong to the church Jesus built. No I don't mean your Roman church!

I don't need a man-made organization such as you do to serve God. I chose to do it the way Jesus set it up rather than add men of power and positions that Jesus never instituted. You see Jesus got it right to start with. As a member of His church I am secure in Him.
So...in effect, you are creating your own view of what the Church is that Jesus estabished...and you are putting yourself as the head of your own creation

How do you think Jesus set it up? Did not Jesus say that He will build it upen the Rock of Peter?
 
Old 05-01-2014, 03:19 PM
 
15 posts, read 11,948 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rightly Divided View Post
What I find offensive is your insistence that I broke from the Roman church somehow. I find that very insulting. I would never have anything to do with a cult like that. You just did it again with the term of "reformation". We know you mean some that broke from Rome. And that ain't me. Get it. Just as calling me a Protestant is insulting because it is just you claiming your church is the only one and everyone else broke from you. That is a lie and I will reject it at every turn.
But that is the truth...and you cannot seem to accept it?

How many Churches did you think Jesus estabish? several thousands with their own beliefs or only one?
 
Old 05-01-2014, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,920,829 times
Reputation: 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by inhinyero View Post
Because it is what the early Church believed. On the contrary, it is actually accounted for in historical records:

Here are some quotes, you can actually check the actual writings and verify them if you wish:

Irenaeus
“The blessed apostles [Peter and Paul], having founded and built up the church [of Rome] . . . handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus” (Against Heresies 3:3:3 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian
“[T]his is the way in which the apostolic churches transmit their lists: like the church of the Smyrneans, which records that Polycarp was placed there by John, like the church of the Romans, where Clement was ordained by Peter” (Demurrer Against the Heretics 32:2 [A.D. 200]).
Your revisionist histories fly in the face of documented history about the struggles the Bishop of Rome had in grasping for power over the centuries. Get at least one history that is not written by Catholic apologists.
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