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Hi mshipmate I have read Ecc. 12:7 Better translation is we return to dust and the breath returns to God who gave it. The Hebrew word is RUACH which means air or breath but is translated in KJ to spirit.
Matthew 12:38 "Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth”
I believe one should re-read Jonah chapter 2 carefully. because 1 Peter 3:19 clearly tell us where the Lord went after his death. and so do Matthew 12:40. or else our Lord lied, God forbid.
Hi mshipmate I have read Ecc. 12:7 Better translation is we return to dust and the breath returns to God who gave it. The Hebrew word is RUACH which means air or breath but is translated in KJ to spirit.
Greeting, Yes, but one must understand that Jesus the Christ is God, shared in flesh. that's the game changer.
Hi mshipmate I have read Ecc. 12:7 Better translation is we return to dust and the breath returns to God who gave it. The Hebrew word is RUACH which means air or breath but is translated in KJ to spirit.
Yes, and the word spirit means breath. So if you know the spirit/breath returns to God when one dies, then why did you say our spirit dies with the body?
Matthew 12:38 "Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth”
I believe one should re-read Jonah chapter 2 carefully. because 1 Peter 3:19 clearly tell us where the Lord went after his death. and so do Matthew 12:40. or else our Lord lied, God forbid.
be blessed.
Hi 101c I am probably going to upset a lot of people but Jesus was not in the tomb for three days. He never said He would be. Read it again He said He would like Jonah was in the fish he would be in the "heart of the earth " Confined unable to get away, WE ARE THE EARTH Jesus was confined and unable to get away like He always had in the past. Remember when He said" before Abraham, I AM" He was telling them He was I AM they knew what that meant and they wanted to stone Him He was claiming to be God ,but He was gone from their midst. The Father was protecting Him.
Jesus said that the son of Man would go to Jerusalem where He would be betrayed to the chief priest, condemned to death turned over to the Gentile's who would mock him and scourge him and crucify him and on the third day He would arise. Matthew 20:18 The three days and three nights started on the night Judas betrayed him to the chief priests. From that moment He was in the heart of the earth and unable to get away.
Hi 101c I am probably going to upset a lot of people but Jesus was not in the tomb for three days. He never said He would be. Read it again He said He would like Jonah was in the fish he would be in the "heart of the earth " Confined unable to get away, WE ARE THE EARTH Jesus was confined and unable to get away like He always had in the past. Remember when He said" before Abraham, I AM" He was telling them He was I AM they knew what that meant and they wanted to stone Him He was claiming to be God ,but He was gone from their midst. The Father was protecting Him.
Jesus said that the son of Man would go to Jerusalem where He would be betrayed to the chief priest, condemned to death turned over to the Gentile's who would mock him and scourge him and crucify him and on the third day He would arise. Matthew 20:18 The three days and three nights started on the night Judas betrayed him to the chief priests. From that moment He was in the heart of the earth and unable to get away.
you're not upsetting me, because as you said, "Jesus was not in the tomb for three days". that I agree with. not Jesus the spirit, (Son of Man). but his body was in the tomb, (Jesus the flesh and bone). there is a difference between the Son of Man, and the son of God.
now, your statement, "Confined unable to get away". I'm not sure of it. but I always consider other opinions. but here is my opinion. as a spirit, he is not confined in any manner. death, if anything "FREED" him up. the separating of body and spirit. the key here is the Son of Man.
Hi 101c I am probably going to upset a lot of people but Jesus was not in the tomb for three days. He never said He would be. Read it again He said He would like Jonah was in the fish he would be in the "heart of the earth " Confined unable to get away, WE ARE THE EARTH Jesus was confined and unable to get away like He always had in the past. Remember when He said" before Abraham, I AM" He was telling them He was I AM they knew what that meant and they wanted to stone Him He was claiming to be God ,but He was gone from their midst. The Father was protecting Him.
Jesus said that the son of Man would go to Jerusalem where He would be betrayed to the chief priest, condemned to death turned over to the Gentile's who would mock him and scourge him and crucify him and on the third day He would arise. Matthew 20:18 The three days and three nights started on the night Judas betrayed him to the chief priests. From that moment He was in the heart of the earth and unable to get away.
Quote:
I am probably going to upset a lot of people but Jesus was not in the tomb for three days. He never said He would be. Read it again He said He would like Jonah was in the fish he would be in the "heart of the earth " Confined unable to get away, WE ARE THE EARTH Jesus was confined and unable to get away like He always had in the past.
I've heard some crazy teachings before, but what I've high-lighted really takes the cake.
Let's let the Scriptures speak for themselves.
First 'witness' Christ was in the grave for 3 FULL days and 3 FULL nights:
Mt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart [middle] of the earth.(ground i.e. the tomb)
Second witness:
Mt 26:61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
Mr 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.
2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Mt 26:61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
Mt 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.
Mt 27:63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.
BTW, there's several Gr. words for 'earth' and none of them mean, believers or ppl.
It's when ppl stray away from letting Scripture interpret Scripture that odd teachings such as your appear.
Yes. We are told we must be "born again" and that Flesh is born of Flesh and Spirit is born of Spirit. Our Spirit is resurrected (born again). When we die we are "born again" as Spirit . . . as Jesus was. BUT our ancient ancestors were carnal and extremely terrified of Spirits . . . that was why they were given "carnal "milk" instead of "solid food" in the Gospel. That is also why Jesus gave the illusion of a physical body to His disciples. (No physical body goes through walls or closed doors.) He even created the illusion of touching His body and even of eating with them . . . all to mitigate their extreme fear of Spirits.
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Originally Posted by trumpethim
Death is separation. The Bible says that when the body goes to the dust, the spirit returns to God Who gave it. Eccl. 12:7 It also speaks of sleeping in the dust, and being raised from sleep. If we separate the parts of the body correctly, we see that the Spirit doesn't die, but returns to God. The soul 'sleeps' in the sense that it is unconscious or 'turned off' until it is raised to life at one of the two resurrections.
When we die, our bodies are separated from our souls, and our souls are separated from our spirits. The body rots, the soul sleeps, and the spirit returns to God. The resurrection is for the purpose of putting us back together, and doing it in a permanent eternal manner. Those that die in the Lord, will 'in spirit' be with the Lord until the resurrection. Those spirits that were not believers will be separated from the Lord, yet they will be in the heavenly realm. Spirits don't die, they only become separated from God. At the First Resurrection, Jesus will come and those that are His will be resurrected without judgment. After this, the remaining humanity will be resurrected. Any spirits at this time that don't believe will become believers, because they will be in His presence. The believers that were not sanctified will also appear at this resurrection, and everyone will receive new bodies and their souls will be rejoined to their being. Each person will then be judged according to the works of their souls, and the amount of their works which are vanity will be burned up, and they will suffer loss, but they will be saved as through fire.
Originally Posted by trumpethim Death is separation. The Bible says that when the body goes to the dust, the spirit returns to God Who gave it. Eccl. 12:7 It also speaks of sleeping in the dust, and being raised from sleep. If we separate the parts of the body correctly, we see that the Spirit doesn't die, but returns to God. The soul 'sleeps' in the sense that it is unconscious or 'turned off' until it is raised to life at one of the two resurrections. When we die, our bodies are separated from our souls, and our souls are separated from our spirits. The body rots, the soul sleeps, and the spirit returns to God. The resurrection is for the purpose of putting us back together, and doing it in a permanent eternal manner. Those that die in the Lord, will 'in spirit' be with the Lord until the resurrection. Those spirits that were not believers will be separated from the Lord, yet they will be in the heavenly realm. Spirits don't die, they only become separated from God. At the First Resurrection, Jesus will come and those that are His will be resurrected without judgment. After this, the remaining humanity will be resurrected. Any spirits at this time that don't believe will become believers, because they will be in His presence. The believers that were not sanctified will also appear at this resurrection, and everyone will receive new bodies and their souls will be rejoined to their being. Each person will then be judged according to the works of their souls, and the amount of their works which are vanity will be burned up, and they will suffer loss, but they will be saved as through fire.
GINOLJC, to all
this was an interesting response. I have bolded above something that might interest us in this discussion. which after reading this post brought some question up in my mind on this matter. but I'll post what I have intended first.
2 Peter 2:9 "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished”.
reserve: G5083 τηρέω tereo (tay-reh'-o). to guard (from loss or injury). (by implication) to detain in custody. now those spirits that was in prison, 1 Peter 3:19, verse 20 tell us who they was. "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water”. the key word here is “were”. the scripture, IMO, is referring to humans who lost their lives to sin in the flood. who is now, in death, reserve. these being signified to as spirit, because they “were” alive in the flesh once before. this was the way that they was identified as to who he was talking about. hence as 2 Peter 2:9 states. and others was in Paradise. which before, in time past, before our Lord’s death, was across from each other, but separate by a great gulf fixed. hence 1 Peter 3:19 "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison”. this is where God reserve these spirits/souls, in Prison, just as those who are, or is in Paradise.
and two, IMO you’re correct in that the soul sleeps. Romans 14:9 "For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living”. that word revived is the Greek word, G326 ἀναζάω anazao (an-ad-zah'-o). meaning, to recover life. but if one look closely at Romans 14:9, he have already rose. then was revived. but lets look at revived, and see how it fits in this world and compare to the world of the dead. according to dictionary online, revived: 1. to activate, set in motion, or take up again. 2. to restore to life or consciousness. WAIT A MINUTE. did not romans say he died, and rose, so why now revived, if rose?. Hmmmmmmmm, well as the definition states, 2. to restore to life or consciousness. that’s the word I want to key in on, “consciousness”. I’ll hold here for a few, because this might just open up some things that some might not want to be talked about. especially concerning soul sleep. I’ll wait for a few more response first. but this to restore to life or consciousness need to be understood.
Dear 101c, if you look really closely at 1 Peter 3:19 you will kindly note that after Christ was vivified or made alive it was then that He went to the spirits (not humans) in prison. There are the the spirit angels in the caverns of Tartarus Christ most likely went to:
2Pe_2:4 For if God spares not sinning messengers, but thrusting them into the gloomy caverns of Tartarus, gives them up to be kept for chastening judging;"
You are correct that if the spirit is separated from the body that death ensues.
As to Romans 14:9 Christ is to be Lord of all who have died and all the living. He will be Lord of lords and King of kings.
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Originally Posted by 101c
I'm sorry, but I must have to disagree with you here, this was before his resurrection. is there any scripture stating after his resurrection that he descended into hell?.
seeing that Christ also, for our sakes, once died concerning sins, the just for the sake of the unjust, that
He may be leading us to God; being put to death, indeed, in flesh, yet vivified in spirit, in which, being gone
to the spirits in jail also, (1 Peter 3:18-19)
Vivification in spirit has to do with bringing one back to life after being dead.
Jesus is said to be the very Firstfruit of vivification
For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified." Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence;" (1 Corinthians 15:22-23)
So, based upon the above, it was only after Christ was vivified that He then went to the spirits in jail. He couldn't do this while dead because He was, well, dead. Death is the complete absence of life. We are not alive while dead.
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