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Old 06-19-2014, 05:46 PM
 
6,675 posts, read 4,293,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelist-77 View Post

Note-A
Entering the kingdom of God appears to be the opposite of being cast into hell …
[b]• “And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out.
Do they sell eye pluckers at Wal-Mart or do I have to go to Home Depot?
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Old 06-19-2014, 07:07 PM
 
238 posts, read 271,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
. . . but we will be "saved as by fire" because Christ achieved our salvation for us.
... but the 31 passages in post #3 teach against this! ... Tormented by fire is more like it.
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Old 06-19-2014, 07:15 PM
 
Location: New England
37,340 posts, read 28,358,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930 View Post
Do they sell eye pluckers at Wal-Mart or do I have to go to Home Depot?
Walk into any orthodox christian church and they will do it for free.
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Old 06-19-2014, 07:18 PM
 
6,675 posts, read 4,293,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelist-77 View Post
... but the 31 passages in post #3 teach against this! ... Tormented by fire is more like it.
Which you completely misinterpreted or took out of context.

It must suck to be sin conscious and condemnation minded.
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Old 06-19-2014, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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You noticed that.
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Old 06-20-2014, 06:24 AM
 
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Evangelist - looking at your list, if a person does not have the grace of God in their life, your list will be drudgery. I dont think anyone can live a godly life without the Holy Spirit giving someone the ability and the changed heart to be able to do what you say in your post.

I think those things will come naturally as a product of the new life in Christ Jesus. If anyone tries to do those things without Jesus, they cannot.

"Without Me, you can do nothing" Jesus said.
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Old 06-20-2014, 07:50 AM
 
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Correct. Only those that do the will of God and keep His commandments will enter the kingdom of heaven.

My brothers mother and sisters do the will of my heavenly Father.

No one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and spirit.
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Old 06-20-2014, 09:23 AM
 
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according to Arminian theology, there are two potential outcomes for those that have received Christ's Holy Spirit through the new Birth by Faith in Christ.

Either

Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Or

Hebrews 10:26-27

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Either one is looking to God appearing as His Savior or looking forward only to the Great White Throne Judgment of God to be cast into the lake of fire.

The Calvanist embraces the "OSAS" position. The believer can have full assurance of God's commitment to them by His faithfulness once they are seen "in Christ" by Faith in Him. The Arminian embraces the once saved and lost again always lost. (<<there is no other interpretation scripturally for this view).. No hope whatsoever of Salvation. In fact, it would have been better for the individual to have never come to Christ in the first place.

2 Peter 2:20-22

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Jude

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.



In Arminianism, if you come to Jesus Christ but do not overcome than it would have been better if you never have come at all. You cannot know if you are God's child. You are not sure of your position before Him. You do not know if all things in life are working together for good ultimately. For all you know, all things are working together for bad unto your destruction.

I'm just pointing out some points here. People can decide for themselves what they believe is the truth of the matter.
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Old 06-20-2014, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,950,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post
In Arminianism, if you come to Jesus Christ but do not overcome than it would have been better if you never have come at all. You cannot know if you are God's child. You are not sure of your position before Him. You do not know if all things in life are working together for good ultimately. For all you know, all things are working together for bad unto your destruction.

I'm just pointing out some points here. People can decide for themselves what they believe is the truth of the matter.
If you don't know that you love the Lord and continue in that love regardless of some shortcomings, that is true. On the other hand, you can nevewr know under "Reformed Theology" that you ARE one of "the Elect" until you "persevere to the end," which is one of the requirements to BE one of the elect. Some assurance.

I'm just pointing out that your point is not fully made.
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Old 06-20-2014, 11:18 AM
 
6,822 posts, read 6,649,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
If you don't know that you love the Lord and continue in that love regardless of some shortcomings, that is true. On the other hand, you can nevewr know under "Reformed Theology" that you ARE one of "the Elect" until you "persevere to the end," which is one of the requirements to BE one of the elect. Some assurance.

I'm just pointing out that your point is not fully made.
So there are different levels of Calvanists/Arminians.. what you've described is called the "hyper Calvanist".. in which the individual does not ultimately know that they are elect until the end.

What I described what is deemed by some as "moderate Calvanist". These are those that know they are Saved and one of the elect by based upon them receiving His Holy Spirit by Faith in Christ with assurance that they will persevere unto the end as "it is God who works in you both to will and to do His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13). Those that apostasize were never born again.

hope this clears up any confusion. The focus isn't on Calvanism/OSAS though.. the post was directed toward Arminianism and the concept that born-again Christians can lose their salvation.
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