What Christians must do to keep their salvation (believers, scriptures, sinners)
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None of those 31 passages threaten the believer with loss of eternal life. You do not understand what they mean. Eternal life cannot be lost or walked away from. Passages such as 2 Tim. 2:11-13; Rom. 6:3-8; Rom. 8:35-39; Rom. 11:29 and Eph. 1:13-14 make that clear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew K
Is this theory suggesting when a person comes to finality and is in the presence, or anticipation of the divine , and the position remains to favor all the anti-charity decisions, without humility .....because the person was once a believer, god will be open to a kind of ohh and god will say, I guess everyone has their own opinion ?
and now the stages mentioned ? Not what happens and stages...exactly a reconciling, where does it fit in the theory ?
The eternal security of the one who has been born again through faith in Christ Jesus is not a theory. It is a Biblically revealed fact as shown by the verses already posted. Our salvation does not depend on us. It depends upon God. Once we receive eternal life God will not revoke it for any reason.
The eternal security of the one who has been born again through faith in Christ Jesus is not a theory. It is a Biblically revealed fact as shown by the verses already posted. Our salvation does not depend on us. It depends upon God. Once we receive eternal life God will not revoke it for any reason.
The question deserves a straight answer. Also I don't want to get into an arguing thing but as mentioned the eternal security is not possible to understand as explained because reconciling is not included. So as it is the eternal security cannot be understood, this is the first Ive heard of the idea, last few months or so I guess.
The eternal security of the one who has been born again through faith in Christ Jesus is not a theory. It is a Biblically revealed fact as shown by the verses already posted. Our salvation does not depend on us. It depends upon God. Once we receive eternal life God will not revoke it for any reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew K
I'm not interested in getting caught up with terms.
The question deserves a straight answer. Also I don't want to get into an arguing thing but as mentioned the eternal security is not possible to understand as explained because reconciling is not included. So as it is the eternal security cannot be understood, this is the first Ive heard of the idea.
Frankly, your question as phrased doesn't make any sense. But as I told you, the eternal security of the believer is not a theory. It is a Biblically revealed fact. You will have to rephrase your question. Regarding reconciliation however, forensically, reconciliation is the removal of sin as a barrier between man and God and was accomplished at the cross. The only barrier remaining is your attitude toward Jesus Christ. The issue in salvation is whether you will receive Christ as Savior. Once you have done that you have eternal life forever even if you turn around and reject Christ afterwards.
Last edited by Michael Way; 06-21-2014 at 01:19 AM..
Also I don't want to get into an arguing thing but as mentioned the eternal security is not possible to understand as explained because reconciling is not included. So as it is the eternal security cannot be understood, this is the first Ive heard of the idea, last few months or so I guess.
The OP is a question that can be answered from both pov's based on who is asking.
One way to answer is if it's from a self \work-righteous person looking to justify being self \ work-righteous.
In such case the answer would be .... nothing.
Ephesians 2:8-9
Galations 2:16
John 6:39
The other way for this question to be answered would be if the person who is asking is trying to justify OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved).
In such case the answer is to remain \ endure to the end
Frankly, your question as phrased doesn't make any sense. But as I told you, the eternal security of the believer is not a theory. It is a Biblically revealed fact. You will have to rephrase your question. Regarding reconciliation however, forensically, reconciliation is the removal of sin as a barrier between man and God and was accomplished at the cross. The only barrier remaining is your attitude toward Jesus Christ. The issue in salvation is whether you will receive Christ as Savior. Once you have done that you have eternal life forever even if you turn around and reject Christ afterwards.
Barrier definition: something such as a fence or object that prevents or blocks movement from one place to another.
Quote from above : The only barrier remaining is your attitude toward Jesus Christ.
Question : how can a barrier be something which is described as -only ?
Iow , what more rejection could there be in a relationship then something which prevents and blocks ?
The OP is a question that can be answered from both pov's based on who is asking.
One way to answer is if it's from a self \work-righteous person looking to justify being self \ work-righteous.
In such case the answer would be .... nothing.
Ephesians 2:8-9
Galations 2:16
John 6:39
The other way for this question to be answered would be if the person who is asking is trying to justify OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved).
In such case the answer is to remain \ endure to the end
2 Timothy 2:12
John 6:56
John 15:4-6
1 John 2:24
But I don't see how this answers the question. I don't see how u guys are fitting things in, maybe I'm missing something I donno.
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, shall enter the kingdom of heaven (*) but he who does the will of My Father in heaven … I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ ” (Matt 7:21-23) We see from the passage above: • those who do the will of Father God shall enter the kingdom of heaven (*) • those who refuse to do the will of Father God are practicing lawlessness (*) Note-A substantiates that Matt 7:21-23 is talking about eternal life!
God has given humans free will … they have the choice to follow and obey Him (or not)! “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments … I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him …” (Deut 30:15-20)
Some NT Scriptures about doing God’s will • “… as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart …” (Ephesians 6:6) • “… that you may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.” (Colossians 4:12) • “For this is the will of God, your sanctification … each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God … For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit.” (1 Thessalonians 4:1-8) • “For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise …” (Hebrews 10:36-38) • “And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the willofGod abides forever.” (1 John 2:17)
The amazing thing is … Because the Scriptures are all inspired by God, ALL commands and instructions given to believers in the NT are obviously about doing the will of God.
Examples of God’s will for believers – and doing them is necessary for eternal life All of the 52 Scriptures below refer specifically to how eternal life can be attained or lost: • Believe in Jesus Christ and His gospel …John 3:16, John 3:36, John 5:24, Acts 4:12, Acts 16:31, Rom 10:9-10, etc. • Repent of your sins … Luke 13:3-5, 2 Pet 3:9 • Know God, follow God, be led by the Spirit … John 17:3, John 10:27-28, Rom 8:13-14, Luke 9:23-25 • Obey Jesus’ commandments … Matt 19:16-17, Rom 6:16, Heb 5:9, Rev 22:14-15 • Practice righteousness, i.e. to be righteous in God’s eyes … Matt 25:45-46, 1 Cor 6:9-10, Rom 6:12-16, Rom 2:5-11, Rom 14:17-18 • Forgive men’s sins and tresspasses against you … Matt 6:14-15, Mark 11:25-26, Matt 18:21-35 • Do not be a slave of sin, do not sin … Rom 6:16, James 1:14-16, Rev 21:8, Mark 9:43-48, 1 Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, Eph 5:3-6,
2 Pet 2:20-22, Rev 21:27, Rev 22:14-15 • Do not be carnally minded, do not live according to the flesh, crucify the flesh … Rom 8:1-8, Rom 8:13-14, Gal 6:7-8, Gal 5:19-21 • Lose your worldly life, hate your life in this world, deny yourself … John 12:25, Mark 8:34-37, Luke 9:23-25, Matt 16:24-26, Luke 14:26-33 • Confess your continuing sins, and repent of them … 2 Cor 7:8-10, 1 John 1:9 • Be holy … Heb 12:14-15, Matt 5:8, Col 1:22-23 • Do not desire to be rich, do not love money … 1 Tim 6:9-10, 1 Tim 6:17-19 • Be an overcomer … Rev 2:10-11, Rev 3:5, Rev 21:7-8 • Endure in your faith until the end of your life … Matt 10:22, Rev 2:10-11, 1 Tim 4:16, 1 Cor 15:1-2, Jude 1:20-21, Heb 10:36-39,
1 Tim 6:9-12, Phil 2:12-16, 1 Pet 1:5-9, Heb 2:1-4 Note: for Rev 3:5 and Rev 21:27 please see Note-B, and for Rev 3:12 and Rev 22:14-15 see Note-C.
31 of the 52 Scriptures above refer specifically to how eternal life can be LOST. These 31 passages apply to Christians just as well as anyone else!
Note: there are also multitudes of Scriptures that reveal God’s will for us that do not specifically allude to eternal life or death.
Note-A Entering the kingdom of God appears to be the opposite of being cast into hell … • “And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire” (Mark 9:47) Inheriting the kingdom appears to be for the righteous who gain eternal life … • “Come, you (righteous) blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world … inasmuch as you (unrighteous) did not doitto one of the least of these, you did not doitto Me.And these (unrighteous) will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous intoeternallife.” (Matt 25:34-46) So bottom line, we consider entering the kingdom of God/heaven as gaining eternal life. Note-B “And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Rev 20:15) Note-C “But there shall by no means enter it (the New Jerusalem) anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.” (Rev 21:27)
Interesting note 3 of the many “sin list” passages in the NT contain murder in their long lists of sins. The following condemnation of murder just serves as an example for all of the sins in the lists. “… you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” (1 John 3:15)
So, performing the 613 Mitzvot is the correct path to follow for they are the Commandments of HaShem...The more you practice them, the more they are ingrained and become habit, thereby making you a better person...
But I don't see how this answers the question. I don't see how u guys are fitting things in, maybe I'm missing something I donno.
The works-righteous focus' on words "must do to keep" which is the focusing on "I".
These scriptures teach that it's not
Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves,
it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.
Galations 2:16
know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have
put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law,
because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
John 6:39
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.
---------------------------------------
However, the OSAS person will incorrectly interpret John 6:39 to make it read that one can not lose their salvation ever ... never ever. These scriptures teach differently. They teach one must remain \ endure
(John 6:56 teaches one way how a person can)
2 Timothy 2:12 if we endure, we will also reign with him.
If we disown him, he will also disown us;
John 6:56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
John 15:4-6 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine.
Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit;
apart from me you can do nothing.
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
1 John 2:24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you.
If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
*** a clarification concerning John 6:56*****
We know what Jesus was referring to when later he instituted the Lord's Supper when he said:
Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out
for many for the forgiveness of sins."
The works-righteous focus' on words "must do to keep" which is the focusing on "I".
These scriptures teach that it's not
Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves,
it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.
Galations 2:16
know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have
put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law,
because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
John 6:39
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.
---------------------------------------
However, the OSAS person will incorrectly interpret John 6:39 to make it read that one can not lose their salvation ever ... never ever. These scriptures teach differently. They teach one must remain \ endure
(John 6:56 teaches one way how a person can)
2 Timothy 2:12 if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;
John 6:56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
John 15:4-6 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit;
apart from me you can do nothing.
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
1 John 2:24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
*** a clarification concerning John 6:56*****
We know what Jesus was referring to when later he instituted the Lord's Supper when he said:
Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."
I'm pretty sure I understand same , the living faith which is understood in the first place.
Im starting to wonder if the concept born again is being misunderstood. Born Again to my understandings concerns all believers all the time as the living faith is always being born-anew , in the stable of self knowledge.
Self knowledge referring to openness and an openness to self examination as the believer accepts to being not perfect all the time . So I think born again by the new believers and whoever the elders are , may not be teaching accurate or possibly unfinished explaining.. Not to say a believer who fully makes the belief in sincerity will not be saved in any circumstance as a rule.
Last edited by Drew K; 06-21-2014 at 11:49 AM..
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