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Matt 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Rom 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Allright, Yeshua is speaking in Matthew, but it is Paul that is speaking in Romans, not Yeshua...If you, yourself, do all 613 Mitzvot, have you not fullfilled the Law?...As Yeshua had done?...The Law that He came not to abolish, The Law, which is the Father's Will, which Yeshua fullfilled?...So, how can you be Christ-like if you throw out The Law which Yeshua fullfilled?...If you are to be Christ-like, should you not also fullfill The Law?...
Allright, Yeshua is speaking in Matthew, but it is Paul that is speaking in Romans, not Yeshua...If you, yourself, do all 613 Mitzvot, have you not fullfilled the Law?...As Yeshua had done?...The Law that He came not to abolish, The Law, which is the Father's Will, which Yeshua fullfilled?...So, how can you be Christ-like if you throw out The Law which Yeshua fullfilled?...If you are to be Christ-like, should you not also fullfill The Law?...
No, why should I? Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit and the epistles are quite clear on the fact that we are under a new covenant of grace and not the law. Jesus finished the work.
Like Jesus said:
John 6:28-29:
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do , that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent .
I realize there are some here that call Paul a heretic, so if you're one of those, there nothing more to discuss.
By the way, you could never fulfill the law. No one could except Jesus.
No, why should I? Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit and the epistles are quite clear on the fact that we are under a new covenant of grace and not the law. Jesus finished the work.
Like Jesus said:
John 6:28-29:
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do , that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent .
I realize there are some here that call Paul a heretic, so if you're one of those, there nothing more to discuss.
By the way, you could never fulfill the law. No one could except Jesus.
Nope. If they were, why did they need the animal sacrifices?
Heb 10:1-3
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come , and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect . 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered ? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
And if you bring up Abraham, he wasn't righteous. Righteousness was accounted to him because he believed.
Rom 4:3-5
3 For what saith the scripture ? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
No, I'm saying the OT and the NT are mutually solid information that shouldn't be disregarded.
** and FYI if you are a Bible believer you are a Jew, period. but sadly there are a multitude of those in the world trying to twist scriptures to fit their own personal molds that "claim" they are Christians but not even close. Or worse, they claim to be "Jew-ish" and put the Talmud and Kaballah in the mix as Holy books in an attempt to usurp the teachings in The Holy Bible when they are nothing but books of witchcraft.
THOSE people will have it the worst when Christ returns. Amen.
Well, based on that portion I put in red, I see you are a proponent of an unorthodox Christianity that likely bears even more non-mainstream concepts. And your user ID suddenly makes sense.
This would probably not be a fruitful discussion for me to continue with you.
The early Gentiles were converting to Judaism until Paul changed all that...The People of the Way were considered a Jewish sect...
I'm not sure about that, at least not as a consistent practice. There weren't many early Gentiles being converted until Paul pushed evangelism beyond Hellenist Jews.
The Holy Spirit did browbeat Peter into meeting Cornelius, but not only was that not by any means indicative of a continued salient on the part of the Hebraic Jews, but the Holy Spirit also clearly proved that becoming a Jew first was not necessary to being filled by Him.
It was that event more than anything else (although Jesus presaged it by some of His actions) that establishes the fact beyond dispute that circumcision is not a prerequisite.
So the only thing left to prove is whether failing to be circumcised after already being filled with the Holy Spirit will cause the Holy Spirit to depart...and I'll leave that proof to you.
(I would note as well that Hebraic Jews never even reached out to other Hellenist Jews. It took Hellenist Jews to move beyond Judea in the first place, and it took the Hellenist Jew Paul to go farther than that.)
Simply because the god Yahweh in the time of Moses was a man-made pagan god who was later refined into a politically-correct god who loved people a little more than the one of Moses.
Jesus revealed the One true God, hitherto unknown to the Jews.
Simply because the god Yahweh in the time of Moses was a man-made pagan god who was later refined into a politically-correct god who loved people a little more than the one of Moses. Jesus revealed the One true God, hitherto unknown to the Jews.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 07-13-2014 at 12:45 PM..
If you read your Bible's with understanding you'd quickly realize that Yeshua read the OT and spoke from it. because He said himself that he came not to "do away" with the Law, but instead FULFILL the Law.
Fulfill = Complete
Fulfill does not = do away with
So for all you NT Christains that think Yeshua has given you a pass to be Sadistic Heahtens in his name....reality check coming soon.
By all means read the old testament, but realize that after Adam and Eve were expelled, they mainly lived in sin amd God and men were separated. Angels and Archangels were called God. Moses dealt with an angel, same with Abraham, Jacob etc.
Light and salvation came from Jesus. Where there is a conflict, you know the one to hold on to, don't you?
Simply because the god Yahweh in the time of Moses was a man-made pagan god who was later refined into a politically-correct god who loved people a little more than the one of Moses.
Jesus revealed the One true God, hitherto unknown to the Jews.
Side bar because I've never heard this before. If Yahweh was a pagan god, then who brought the Israelites out of Egypt?
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