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Yea, but how does your statement say anything about His Son's dying on the cross ?
I'm not sure what you're asking. But, my statement was about the various views of the atonement within Christianity. Christians believe that Jesus' death and resurrection made reconciliation between God and humanity possible. .
Quote:
What is the God nature you are alluding towards along with His character.
You are asking for a definition of "nature"? God's inherent qualities.
I'm not sure what you're asking. But, my statement was about the various views of the atonement within Christianity. Christians believe that Jesus' death and resurrection made reconciliation between God and humanity possible. .
You are asking for a definition of "nature"? God's inherent qualities.
Question: what is your personal view on the topic. The question is not about what you think other people think.
Sin is an offense against God. God's perfect righteousness can't fellowship with sin. Adam's original sin created a barrier between mankind and God which man is unable to remove. The justice of God executed the penalty for sin which His perfect righteousness demanded - spiritual death, which is separation from God (Rom. 6:23). Adam's sin incurred a debt which was passed down to all mankind. A debt which man simply cannot pay. Man owes God perfect righteousness. When sin entered into the human race he no longer had a righteousness which was acceptable to God. Nothing that imperfect man can do can satisfy the perfect righteousness of God.
But God had a solution to man's sin problem. From eternity past God had always known that Adam would fall, and therefore His plan of salvation called for the Second Person of the Trinity to enter into the human race through a virgin birth and therefore free from sin since the sin nature is passed down through the male. Jesus lived a life free from sin which qualified Him to go to the cross and pay the penalty for our sins. During the last three hours - from 12 noon to 3 PM that Jesus was on the cross He bore the sins of the world in His own body (1 Pet. 2:24). During that time in which God the Father was judging those sins the perfect relationship which Jesus had always had with the Father had to be broken. The Father had to forsake Jesus while He bore our sins (Matt. 27:46; Psalm 22:1). That was His spiritual death which paid the penalty against sin which the righteousness of the Father demanded. When Jesus had been judged for every sin that would ever be committed in human history He said tetelestai - it is finished. Tetelestai is in the Greek Perfect tense which refers to past action completed with the results continuing on in full effect. Tetelestai is also an accounting term which means 'paid in full.' When Jesus said, 'It is finished', He was saying that the penalty for our sins had been paid in full. With His work on the cross finished, Jesus dismissed His spirit from His body and died physically. He was then resurrected three days later.
With the sin problem taken care of, the issue in eternal salvation is not sin but whether or not you will receive Christ as Savior. Although our sins have been paid for by Jesus, our imperfect righteousness is still not acceptable to God. It is only when a person trusts in Jesus Christ for eternal life that God imputes the perfect righteousness of Christ to that person which qualifies him to have an eternal relationship with God. That is why a person can still end up in the lake of fire, forever separated from God despite the fact that his sins were paid for. Jesus is the Savior of the world in that He died for all mankind. But only when a person receives Christ as Savior is he credited or imputed with Jesus' perfect righteousness (Rom. 4:1-25; Gal. 3:16).
As I pointed out in my thread on polygamy God regularly fellowshipped with Abraham, David and Solomon and other Old Testament patriarchs who were serial sinners by having sex with multiple wives and concubines outside the marriage to their first and therefore only lawful wife. This did not seem to upset God to the point He could have nothing to do with them. In fact He even offered to give David even more wives had David desired them. Puts God in the light of being two-faced about sin: able to compromise His sense of honor for some sins and not able to for others. God did not require the Old Testament serial polygamists to cover their sin with a sin offering so He must have tacitly approved their sin.
This is a huge topic with many answers. I just wanted to add that Hebrews makes one of the reasons clear... so that he could become like us in every way -- to be "with us" in our suffering, in our subjection to death, in our fears, etc. Jesus was a real man. He experienced true fear and dread before the crucifixion. He did not deserve it, (and there have been many people suffer things that do not deserve) - but he went through all of his human trials in order to be at one with us and show us how to be "at one" with God even unto death.
As I pointed out in my thread on polygamy God regularly fellowshipped with Abraham, David and Solomon and other Old Testament patriarchs who were serial sinners by having sex with multiple wives and concubines outside the marriage to their first and therefore only lawful wife. This did not seem to upset God to the point He could have nothing to do with them. In fact He even offered to give David even more wives had David desired them. Puts God in the light of being two-faced about sin: able to compromise His sense of honor for some sins and not able to for others. God did not require the Old Testament serial polygamists to cover their sin with a sin offering so He must have tacitly approved their sin.
God told David not to number the people - He disobeyed God and 70,000 people died! That is tacitly approval???
You need serious professional help in learning how to read with understanding!
Could i just say that saying you believe in John3:16 and Jesus died on the cross for you makes you no more a christian than the pharisee claiming Abraham is their father and that only God himself was their Father.
Could i just say that saying you believe in John3:16 and Jesus died on the cross for you makes you no more a christian than the pharisee claiming Abraham is their father and that only God himself was their Father.
The word "believe" (pisteuo) is a verb meaning personal "ACTION"
Could i just say that saying you believe in John3:16 and Jesus died on the cross for you makes you no more a christian than the pharisee claiming Abraham is their father and that only God himself was their Father.
You're correct that just saying it doesn't mean much. It has to be genuine & heartfelt.
Romans 10:9
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
God told David not to number the people - He disobeyed God and 70,000 people died! That is tacitly approval???
You need serious professional help in learning how to read with understanding!
And you're the one with this great understanding of the scriptures and their meaning that is able to straighten me out, I suppose. Don't make me laugh.
You clearly dodged my question with an accusation---something you fundamentalists so expertly do--no great surprise there.
I say again and this time try to address my question or why even bother responding:
God established the 1 man/1 woman law in Genesis. If God established it then anything deviating from it is sin.
Moses in writing out the Law allowed a man to divorce his wife by giving her a bill of divorcement and then marrying another woman. This is clearly sin since it broke God's 1 man/1 woman command given by Him in Genesis. Jesus even stated God's grudging willingness to overlook the sin of divorce and allow a man to divorce his wife and commit adultery with his second wife. Not only that but God permitted, even offered to give extra wives to David had he asked for them.
Yet not only did Moses permit the sin for a man to divorce his first wife and take a second one, but Moses didn't even demand reparation in the form of an animal sacrifice to atone for what was clearly a sin in God's eyes. So Moses of his own accord, or with God's tacit approval, reversed God's 1 man/1 woman command given in Genesis.
Further complicating this messy business we have God totally silent on the issue. Actually, God is not silent; He totally approves this reversal of His 1 man/1 woman law by offering David more wives than David can handle. Clearly God is two-faced about a man having more than one wife: first He says it's not okay, then He says it's okay.
God clearly can compromise His own commands and call what formerly was sin, not a sin. If God can compromise His honor that way, then surely He can compromise His honor when a man doesn't accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior. If God can do one, He can do the other since He is God. If He chooses to allow one, but not the other, then He is selling Himself out.
All this should be as clear as day to any rational thinking person, even you, Atkutuq, yet you steadfastly refuse to listen to reason. If you are incapable of seeing the total illogic in this, then you are more lost in your dogmatic falderal than you claim me to be.
The word "believe" (pisteuo) is a verb meaning personal "ACTION"
True and the reason why OSAS is a false doctrine, it makes the cross of no effect.
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