What was the purpose of Jesus death? (gnostic, believing, disciples)
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Notes on the realization that some people do not believe that we are sinners in need of a Savior..
"They say that as long as he (man) thinks he is a sinner, then he is as he thinks. According to this view, sin is defined as ignorance, rather than as an offense against God and man. The solution, then, is for man to receive better teaching, rather than to obtain forgiveness through the blood of Christ. This view says that the solution is to be found in a classroom for enlightenment, whereas the Bible brings us to the court of law where offenses are dealt with by blood.
This perverted view interprets Hebrews 10:2 to mean that man’s problem is that he is conscious of sin. The solution, then, is to erase from his mind all “false” ideas that man is a sinner in need of redemption. Man must stop saying that he is a sinner and begin confessing that he is righteous.
In other words, the problem is not the sin itself, but one’s recognition of it. Somehow the recognition creates the reality, and that nothing truly exists in itself, but derives its existence purely by man’s thought process. And, of course, the next logical step in this way of thinking is to say that man creates God in his own image. God only exists if men think He exists, for He derives His very existence from man.
Notes on the realization that some people do not believe that we are sinners in need of a Savior..
"They say that as long as he (man) thinks he is a sinner, then he is as he thinks. According to this view, sin is defined as ignorance, rather than as an offense against God and man. The solution, then, is for man to receive better teaching, rather than to obtain forgiveness through the blood of Christ. This view says that the solution is to be found in a classroom for enlightenment, whereas the Bible brings us to the court of law where offenses are dealt with by blood.
This perverted view interprets Hebrews 10:2 to mean that man’s problem is that he is conscious of sin. The solution, then, is to erase from his mind all “false” ideas that man is a sinner in need of redemption. Man must stop saying that he is a sinner and begin confessing that he is righteous.
In other words, the problem is not the sin itself, but one’s recognition of it. Somehow the recognition creates the reality, and that nothing truly exists in itself, but derives its existence purely by man’s thought process. And, of course, the next logical step in this way of thinking is to say that man creates God in his own image. God only exists if men think He exists, for He derives His very existence from man.
Theology of New Thought
Salvation
“I am wonderful, fantastic, beautiful and good. I am the Christ. So declares a typical New Thought “affirmation.” If we are Christ, and God, then obviously we need no salvation in the biblical sense. For New Thought, the only “salvation” required is a release from ignorance concerning the oneness that we already have with God. Further, our lack of spiritual knowledge (New Thought) keeps us believing that pain, illness and death are real when everything is actually perfect. Thus, heaven on earth is ours for the asking. Incredibly, New Thought teaches, “You do not have to die, grow old, be ill, suffer lack or experience anything negative.”[
To “follow Christ” is to follow our higher divine self
Theology of New Thought
Salvation
“I am wonderful, fantastic, beautiful and good. I am the Christ. So declares a typical New Thought “affirmation.” If we are Christ, and God, then obviously we need no salvation in the biblical sense. For New Thought, the only “salvation” required is a release from ignorance con*cerning the oneness that we already have with God. Further, our lack of spiritual knowledge (New Thought) keeps us believing that pain, illness and death are real when everything is actu*ally perfect. Thus, heaven on earth is ours for the asking. Incredibly, New Thought teaches, “You do not have to die, grow old, be ill, suffer lack or experience anything negative.”[
To “follow Christ” is to follow our higher divine self
I believe that they can be if further study is done with prayer for understanding. Disagreement on what some scriptures may say does not mean that the scriptures are not valid or untrustworthy. The problem may be with translations, the background and teaching received by the person, lack of understanding of work meanings, seeing things out of context, and so on. This does not mean that the scriptures are not to be accepted and believed. God bless.
Respectfully, Shana, I've been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, and am glad to have escaped the gerbil-in-a-wheel getting-nowhere-fast existence of attempting to "allow God" to show me how the bible is one cohesive whole, rather than many ideas from many different people that often are in conflict. That doesn't mean I can't see threads that run throughout, but expecting it all to mesh, or for every sincere seeker to come to the same conclusions about it, is a lesson in futility as far as I'm concerned.
You're more than welcome to the endeavor, and I've no doubt that through it, or in spite of it, you will continue to be drawn to God. Peace.
Apparently not, pcamps as Finn reveals frustratingly!
Yes it was the question but you are so confused in your indoctrinated beliefs about the wrong things that you do not recognize what should be obvious to anyone. This is about Christ's fate and ours, Finn. Christ is just the first-born as Spirit. We are all to follow. That is what this is all about . . . not whatever nonsense you believe about God and Jesus. God is neither vain nor egotistical. You gain no brownie points by your professed beliefs. What you DO in agape love is what matters to your ultimate fate . . . even though we are all "saved as by fire" thanks to Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
You have not even understood the question, so maybe you should not be mocking others about not seeing the obvious.
Clearly you are confused about death, resurrection, being born again. They are not the same event.
No Finn . . . you are confused and blinded by your indoctrination into the "precepts and doctrines of men" that have nothing to do with Christ's Gospel of love. There is no way that ANYONE is "born again" while still alive from the birth of the flesh. No one is remotely "like the wind" while still flesh and blood. We are "born of God" which means "conceived" (begotten) by God as "embryo Spirits" designed to mature and be "born again" as Spirit upon our death. That means that we are born of Spirit (God). You still think we are physical beings . . . but we are spirit beings inhabiting this flesh as a "spiritual womb." All the "precepts and doctrines of men" that you have been taught to believe are wrong. There is no magic about any of it.
Quote:
But then again, you are still missing the point, because the question was not whether or not Jesus was resurrected as a Spirit. I assume you miss the point in purpose, because it has been clarified to you so many times already.
You gain no brownie points by parroting 'agape love' all day long, unless you actually display it.
Disagreeing with you or anyone else is NOT failing to display agape love. Witnessing to the truth that I know to be truth is. No one gains any brownie points with God for anything. We are to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't, period. That is how we are sanctified under Christ's love for us all.
Many of you don't like my consciousness explanation . . . so let me try an
analogy again to music. First it is necessary to understand that the complexity
of life and the universe is comprised entirely of vibratory energy in
manifestations way too complex to easily contemplate. For example, even just
one of us is comprised of a huge complex of vibratory energy in uncountable
forms and functions (cells, neurons, micro-organisms, etc.) . . . but in
reality it is ALL just energy in vibration (no "solid" anything . . . no flesh,
no whatever). Our sensory system just confuses our consciousness (a pure
vibratory energy form) by arraying these vibrations into forms we can "see,
touch, feel, hear, smell, etc." . . . as separate "things" that have
consequences when we interact with them as "things." Complex and confusing
enough to make my point?
This is the reason for using music as the
analogy . . . it is just sound energy vibrations that our consciousness can
recognize as "composites" that we call "songs" . . . rhythm and melody in
various keys, etc. God is the whole symphony of the universe. Humans are
instruments for playing universe music in the human orchestra. We were and
still are "out-of-tune" instruments . . . playing badly, wrong melodies,
passages, completely off-key and discordant . . more like noise. God needed
at least one human instrument to be in tune and playing properly so the rest
could attune themselves properly. However, human instruments are only born in
the wombs of women . . . hence Jesus.
Jesus had to develop . . . as we
all do . . . and had to attune His vibrations (instrument) perfectly with God.
If you have "two tuning forks" . . . one the entire universe (God) and the other
in a human body (Jesus) . . . they are not on the same scale . . . so in one
sense they are separate. But once they are resonating PERFECTLY they are
indistinguishable . . . and the key they resonate in is identical! In the case
of God that "key" is Love. Since they are vibrations indistinguishable one
from one the other . . . they cannot be anything else but One.
Our
human orchestra is located in a specific part of the universe where ALL the
human instruments are supposed to be seated as part of the Celestial orchestra
once they are properly "tuned" and trained to "play" properly. Unfortunately,
all human instruments must be reborn as Spirit to actually join the Celestial
orchestra in the human section. Jesus achieved the perfection of love and
showed us how to "tune" our instruments and "play" in tune. When He died . . .
He was reborn as Spirit and was seated as part of the Celestial orchestra in
the human section as the Holy Spirit (Conductor) where He continues to help
each of us "tune" our instruments and learn to "play" in tune. However since
Jesus's "playing" is indistinguishable from God's . . . they remain One.
There is nothing here about Jesus dying for our sins, as the scriptures tell us. There is no sin mentioned here. We are simply out of tune and need to tune our instruments. There is no need for Jesus to die for our sins, because we have no sin, according to this teaching.
New thought has as many holes as the handed down old thoughts that most bible believing christians hold to, including many universalists.
Your thoughts are not my thoughts....... What do you mean God, we have the bible you gave us to know your thoughts ?.
For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. Hang on God,i thought that you said you created evil
Because you have a bible does not mean you know the thoughts of God
And what are we taught that is of most importance?
"What does the apostle Paul, yes the apostle Paul, teach us is most important?
1 Cor. 15
"15 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast [a]the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3 [b]For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to [c]James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as [d]to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. "
We are not the Christ.
Jesus is our Savior and our Lord and He died to set us free from the captivity to sin and death. Yes, we die and we are dead until the Lord raises us, according to what the scriptures teach. God bless.
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