What was the purpose of Jesus death? (explanation, daughter, support)
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I have had the mack truck hit me more then once warden, do you think you are the only one who has gone through troubles. When I believed as you do I started to hate God, even told Him so because I believed He was behind all the crap in my life, but once I realised God was LOVE and love worketh NO EVIL and love thinketh NO EVIL(both are scriptural by the way) I came to realise most of the crap in my life was of my own choosing. And when I realised this brother I seen how truly good God was to me, for He took all the crap I had done to myself and turned it into a blessing. He took the hatred from my heart and filled it with love.
A very good song says
let your first thought, your very first thought be love.
Many of us have a Mack truck experience with God, but not all respond to the mercy and grace of Jesus.
The penal substitution theory maintains the pharisaical mindset of scapegoating; a lamb to be slain, crucifying the innocent - as the religious need their pound of flesh - for Sacrificing.
And, while were at it, lets throw in the thought of Hades; a mythical underworld of pain and suffering?
But you can only reach that conclusion by eliminating Shana's verses from Isaiah---to name only a few:
Isaiah 53:
10IBut the Lord was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief;
If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His [n]offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in His hand.
11 As a result of the anguish of His soul,
He will see it and be satisfied;
By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many,---(note it does not say ALL!)
As He will bear their iniquities.
12
Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great,
And He will divide the booty with the strong; Because He poured out Himself to death,
And was numbered with the transgressors;
Yet He Himself bore the sin of many,
And interceded for the transgressors.
Substitutionary faith is the faith of our fathers--even prior to Jesus. And the holiest Jews themselves believe in substitutionary sacrifice ONLY in conjunction with mercy. Early in this thread I quoted a Jew writing about it. Sacrifice only becomes valid with a merciful heart. That is why Jesus sacrifice was acceptable to God--He did so with a merciful heart.
Many of us have a Mack truck experience with God, but not all respond to the mercy and grace of Jesus.
and not many respond the outpooring of love from God that He gives us in His mercy and grace when we screw up and He has to fix it.
Brother until you take FULL responsibility for your own actions and stop laying the blame on God for being behind what you do for some mysterious greater purpose, you will never understand just how much God loves you and has done for you.
You know Adam tried to blame God also, "the woman YOU gave me", but God would have none of that then and He will have none of that now. Stop blaming God for missusing or abusing the things He has given you.
But you can only reach that conclusion by eliminating Shana's verses from Isaiah---to name only a few:
Isaiah 53:
10IBut the Lord was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His [n]offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in His hand.
11 As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied;
By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many,---(note it does not say ALL!)
As He will bear their iniquities.
12
Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great,
And He will divide the booty with the strong; Because He poured out Himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors.
Substitutionary faith is the faith of our fathers--even prior to Jesus. And the holiest Jews themselves believe in substitutionary sacrifice ONLY in conjunction with mercy. Early in this thread I quoted a Jew writing about it. Sacrifice only becomes valid with a merciful heart. That is why Jesus sacrifice was acceptable to God--He did so with a merciful heart.
obviously you did not read pleroos link. You know turning a blind eye to things you do not want to see only hurts you further, however some people like to glory in the suffering they have brought upon themselves.
I agree wholeheartedly that this should resonate with Shana and Warden . . . if they were amenable. Sadly I suspect they are not. I believe that my views of HOW Christ accomplished His "designated hitter" role do answer the question put by this author at the end of his excellent article:
"Jesus' death was not a penal substitution. No substitute was needed. Jesus' death was a sacrifice meant to ransom us from our slavery to sin. Though it "pleased" God to bruise him (Is. 53:10), and it was a "joy" for Jesus to give himself (Heb. 12:2), it was not because our God delights in punishment! Instead, he was "pleased" to send his Son to sacrifice himself and thus purchase us to God with his own blood, delivering us from our slavery to sin.
Once again, the mechanism through which this happens is beyond my understanding. It appears to me to be beyond the understanding of everyone who has addressed the subject in writing. There is no doubt, however, that this is what Jesus' death really accomplished, according to the Scriptures.
It should not surprise us that the mechanism of the divine plan of redemption would be a mystery to us, above our understanding. In fact, it should surprise us if it were not!
It is enough for us to know how the divine plan applies to us and what God is asking of us. That much, he has made clear. Let us, then, understand the atonement in the scriptural sense rather than clinging to a substitutionary atonement—not invented until the eleventh century and not formalized until the thirteenth—that leaves us with numerous clashing, "difficult" verses."
ya by their posts they are not brother, just as warden refused to read the link in our debate a while back he refuses to read this link. Both hr and shana wants to believe what they wants to believe and do not want anyone to rock their boat, yet are willing to condem others because they do not see things like they does.
read pleroos link fin, the writer express my belief very well.
So, you do not believe He died for our sins, but you think He died to change us. Why was His death required to change us, and how exactly did it accomplish it. The article does not explain it, it simply states it is so. I would like someone to explain how it works. If you took a gun and said you are going to kill yourself in order to change me, I would ask how your death should change me.
So, you do not believe He died for our sins, but you think He died to change us. Why was His death required to change us, and how exactly did it accomplish it. The article does not explain it, it simply states it is so. I would like someone to explain how it works. If you took a gun and said you are going to kill yourself in order to change me, I would ask how your death should change me.
Why do you not read the link? God will not strike you down for doing so and no demon is going to get ya.
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However, like I said I gave up on you, so I won't ask again.