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The message these prosperity preachers give is a LIE straight from the pit of Hell. Just tell me one thing. Who was the most perfect man who ever lived? Perfect in all of his ways. Perfect in faith, love and obedience to God's will. Well of course we know that man is the Lord Jesus Christ. Now, for all of His perfection, what was God's will for His life? A big house, lots of money, in fact, worldly success in any respect??????????????? NO, it pleased God to crush him utterly, hung on a tree and to have the sins of the entire world put on to His back.
Osteen's theology is diametrically opposed to anything Christian. It's nothing but pure heathen secularism dressed up with a few pious words. It's far worse than a few ear tickling words on a Sunday morning. It's Satanic in it's nature and it's source. It keeps folks from hearing the good news of what we have in Christ.
What do you have in Christ ? Joy and peace in being poor, sick and deprived?,yea right. You are prosperous just living in this country and you don't know it and your pets in your profile picture are probably more satisfied in life than those who have nothing. So please do not tell me prosperity is not of God. It is a lie banded about by those who hate what the Osteen's teach that they teach big houses, big and fast cars, yachts and huge bank balances. Whoever believes that is still poor, all that we ever need is in Christ and Christ is in us and Christ is our supply, there is no greater prosperity than knowing and living out of this.
Jesus taught to give and shall be given to you pressed down shaken together and running over. In other words invest in others as you would have them invest in you.
I will ask you again.. What did he SAY not what he did he NOT say that is unscriptural to you ?. I have no idea what he says when he does it at the start of their meeting, but he holds the bible up like a good old fashioned bible believer and announces what he believes the bible to be.
First, if you want me to address your questions and your points, you could show the same courtesy. You've not addressed mine in any way.
Quote:
MY POINT: People like Joel Osteen, a wolf in sheep's clothing, give Christianity a bad name because his message is disguised as Christianity. But, he doesn't preach Christianity. Even if you wanted to argue that he does (which he doesn't), he doesn't preach the full gospel (all of the scriptures) as commanded. He admittedly says that he won't talk about sin, repentance, judgment, hell, holiness, etc., because he wants to stay positive and motivational. Wolves avoid difficult truths.
Joel Osteen doesn't want to talk about the very things that Jesus died for? He doesn't want to talk about the very purpose of Jesus' ministry?
Secondly, holding the Bible up and saying what he believes it to be, but not preaching the entire gospel message is suspect. What he does NOT say definitely matters. You can't be a true, solid, biblical preacher of God's Word without proclaiming the WHOLE gospel. I've already given you the biblical quote on that. I won't repeat myself. By NOT warning people about sin, repentance, judgment, hell, holiness, etc., he's neglecting the core of the gospel message. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Jesus). Jesus is the only way to the Father. The only way to be saved from God's wrath and judgment deserving of hell and receive salvation, is to repent of your sins, turning from this world's ways, and receive His salvation. If not, hell will be your judgment. This is the core of the gospel message. Not trying to live your best life now.
Jesus is our example. Then the apostles. Show me anywhere in scripture where Jesus or the apostles preached like Joel does? Where in scripture does Jesus or a single apostle say, "I'm just going to preach the positive, encouraging things and ignore the very things that are sending hoards of people to hell daily." Where in the scriptures do they concern themselves more with people's Here and Now more than their eternal souls?
Thirdly, I've already told you what Joel HAS said. No internet searching needed because his words are well documented.
Quote:
I SAID: He admittedly says that he won't talk about sin, repentance, judgment, hell, holiness, etc., because he wants to stay positive and motivational.
These are the very things Christ died for! And he doesn't want to talk about them?
If he wants to be a motivational speaker, then that's what he should be. But, when he calls himself a pastor and speaks these messages in a church, as a leader, he's a false teacher and a wolf. It doesn't matter how sweet, nice or handsome he might be.
But, I'll add another - the thing he's famous for: In Your Best Life Now, Joel says that God wants to increase you financially, and that pursuing financial increase is pleasing to God. Where is this in scripture? Where in the scripture does it say that God wants us to have our best life now?
Life on this earth is the best you can have right now, if you're not a Christian. In that case, live it up! Get it while you can! But, for the Christian, our best life is going to be in eternity. Does the scripture tell us to seek our best life now? Are we to seek wealth? Hardly.
Matthew 6:19-21, "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
You don't store up for yourself riches in heaven by seeking your own happiness, wealth and best life on this earth right now. Jesus and the disciples certainly didn't.
This alone qualifies Joel Osteen as a false teacher. A kernel of truth twisted to please others and increase the flock. People like what he has to say because he only says nice things. It's nothing more than a spin on the Power of Positive Thinking.
Still, you're free to listen and follow whomever you desire.
How does he tickle their ears?. Walk into any christian fundamentalist church and you will hear preachers preaching to the choir exactly what they want to hear....... Their interpretation of the bible.
Say anything contrary to what they already know and believe and you ain't going to go down to well.
What is wrong with being good looking and having nice teeth ?.
I would rather be good looking with nice teeth loving my neighbor as myself than to be a white washed tomb full of dead religion.
What do you have in Christ ? Joy and peace in being poor, sick and deprived?,yea right. You are prosperous just living in this country and you don't know it and your pets in your profile picture are probably more satisfied in life than those who have nothing. So please do not tell me prosperity is not of God. It is a lie banded about by those who hate what the Osteen's teach that they teach big houses, big and fast cars, yachts and huge bank balances. Whoever believes that is still poor, all that we ever need is in Christ and Christ is in us and Christ is our supply, there is no greater prosperity than knowing and living out of this.
Jesus taught to give and shall be given to you pressed down shaken together and running over. In other words invest in others as you would have them invest in you.
So far, your posts have been asking other people questions and demanding evidence, but you have yet to provide any of your own. You haven't offered a single scripture to back up your belief. You ALSO haven't disproven the things I've said or refuted the scriptures I posted.
All you have is your opinion. Which is fine. You're entitled to it. You're certainly entitled to your beliefs and you can follow anyone you want to. That's your right.
But your opinion isn't backed-up by any scriptures. Having earthly riches isn't a sin. Nobody is saying it is. Nobody said being handsome, having great teeth, or even being positive is a sin. But, the PURSUIT of wealth, happiness and your best life now is NOT what the Bible teaches us to pursue. One last time, Joel teaches a KERNEL of truth that's twisted and deceptive because he purposely neglects to teach the very core of the gospel message.
Last edited by plain and simple; 09-05-2014 at 05:31 PM..
First, if you want me to address your questions and your points, you could show the same courtesy. You've not addressed mine in any way.
Secondly, holding the Bible up and saying what he believes it to be, but not preaching the entire gospel message is suspect. What he does NOT say definitely matters. You can't be a true, solid, biblical preacher of God's Word without proclaiming the WHOLE gospel. I've already given you the biblical quote on that. I won't repeat myself. By NOT warning people about sin, repentance, judgment, hell, holiness, etc., he's neglecting the core of the gospel message. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Jesus). Jesus is the only way to the Father. The only way to be saved from God's wrath and judgment deserving of hell and receive salvation, is to repent of your sins, turning from this world's ways, and receive His salvation. If not, hell will be your judgment. This is the core of the gospel message. Not trying to live your best life now.
Jesus is our example. Then the apostles. Show me anywhere in scripture where Jesus or the apostles preached like Joel does? Where in scripture does Jesus or a single apostle say, "I'm just going to preach the positive, encouraging things and ignore the very things that are sending hoards of people to hell daily." Where in the scriptures do they concern themselves more with people's Here and Now more than their eternal souls?
Thirdly, I've already told you what Joel HAS said. No internet searching needed because his words are well documented.
These are the very things Christ died for! And he doesn't want to talk about them?
If he wants to be a motivational speaker, then that's what he should be. But, when he calls himself a pastor and speaks these messages in a church, as a leader, he's a false teacher and a wolf. It doesn't matter how sweet, nice or handsome he might be.
But, I'll add another - the thing he's famous for: In Your Best Life Now, Joel says that God wants to increase you financially, and that pursuing financial increase is pleasing to God. Where is this in scripture? Where in the scripture does it say that God wants us to have our best life now?
Life on this earth is the best you can have right now, if you're not a Christian. In that case, live it up! Get it while you can! But, for the Christian, our best life is going to be in eternity. Does the scripture tell us to seek our best life now? Are we to seek wealth? Hardly.
Matthew 6:19-21, "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
You don't store up for yourself riches in heaven by seeking your own happiness, wealth and best life on this earth right now. Jesus and the disciples certainly didn't.
This alone qualifies Joel Osteen as a false teacher. A kernel of truth twisted to please others and increase the flock. People like what he has to say because he only says nice things. It's nothing more than a spin on the Power of Positive Thinking.
Still, you're free to listen and follow whomever you desire.
You still have not said anything that he's said that is unscriptural. Just because he will not talk about what is important to you does not make him a false teacher. Do you realize the message announced was one of good will and peace to all men, which is the cause of repentance, it wasn't one of you no good sinners judgement is upon you unless you repent, that was solely for those who thought that way, John called them a brood of vipers , Jesus called them white washed tombs and children of hell.
What are your questions, i will gladly answer them.
As a rule i do not listen to anyone preach on tv or the radio, i have heard Joel preach probably 5 times on tv , i do not own any of his books, i do not own a single book, video or cd by any so called prosperity teacher.
The main problem with teachers like Mr Osteen, is that they are their to tickle ears for the tithe. He stands in front of thousands( he knows few) yet tells them if they say 3 lines of prayer with him, they are born again( saved) --he is telling many workers of iniquity, they are born again( saved) when Jesus clearly teaches the opposite-Matt 7:21-23)
One must strip off the old personality( worker of iniquity) and put on the new personality-righteousness( Ephesians 4:22-24)---this means 24/7 to the best of ones abilities. This is how one per-se is born again. Too many of these teachers prevalent on earth-2Cor 11:12-15
plain and simple, what does the verse 'now unto him who is able to do far more abundantly than all we ask or think, according to the power that works in us' mean to you ?.
Also can you explain how you believe that power works within is ?.
Luke 12:15, "And he said to them, “Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions."
1 Timothy 6:10, "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs."
Luke 16:13, "No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money."
Philippians 4:19, "And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus." (Seek God. He's your Source. Not riches. He supplies all of your needs.)
Matthew 6:19-21, "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
Luke 18:22-26, "When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” But when he heard these things, he became very sad, for he was extremely rich. Jesus, seeing that he had become sad, said, “How difficult it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” Those who heard it said, “Then who can be saved?"
--- These are Jesus' words to the man who followed the commandments but was attached to riches and his money.
Proverbs 23:4-5, "Do not weary yourself to gain wealth, cease from your consideration of it. When you set your eyes on it, it is gone. For wealth certainly makes itself wings like an eagle that flies toward the heavens."
These are just a few of scriptures teachings about wealth. It contains many warnings about pursuing it, holding on to it, depending on it, becoming a slave to it, and how it affects people's motives.
The Bible mentions many things that Christians should seek (to be holy, God alone, wisdom, the good of others and not ourselves, truth, etc.,) but it never says to seek riches. It warns against it and the dangers of it.
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