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Where in the bible does it say rape is immoral? Nowhere.
I don't care what that culture was. The bible is supposedly teaching us how to morally act. It is a huge #fail when it comes to rape or slavery. Nothing, absolutely nothing justifies it. Don't give me that 'cultural' excuse. All it means is that you, nor any other apologist, has no means of answering how to address these horrible moral teachings.
Well if you want to ignore the truth, I can't do anything about it. It's just plain ignorant to assume that things like slavery in any culture or time period is EXACTLY and ALWAYS the same. Do you even consider that such terms can have multiple meanings? Some people volunteered for servitude as a way to pay off debts in those days. But according to you, that is sick and immoral. Without knowing all the facts of the circumstances, you don't have a right to judge God here.
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Originally Posted by cupper3
Oh please. Not only is the daughter being treated like property, as in a slave, but the rapist still gets off by paying the dowry to the father as if she was being married.
Remember those words, 'context'. What a sick, sick, teaching. I don't give a flying fig if 'that was the culture at the time', it is wrong, it is immoral, and it is sick. Some middle east cultures still deal this way, and it was not that long ago that dowries were expected in many parts of Europe. What a horrible 'tradition'.
So it's less horrible for the woman to either starve to death or become a prostitute?
So you are using 'but that was the ancient culture at the time' as an excuse for rape and slavery and subjugation of women back then? But when it comes to gay and lesbian people in the 21st century, suddenly that 'ancient culture' excuse goes out the window?
Do you see why many people see this as hypocrisy and cherry-picking to support prejudice against gay and lesbian people?
It's not an excuse at all, it was a reality. I gave the options. Apparently you rather see the woman starve to death or become a prostitute in exchange for the rapist being executed or whatever.
There are moral laws and cultural laws in the Bible. It's not my fault if you can't understand the difference. If it's all the same then you would have to say the laws against adultery no longer apply.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Well if you want to ignore the truth, I can't do anything about it. It's just plain ignorant to assume that things like slavery in any culture or time period is EXACTLY and ALWAYS the same. Do you even consider that such terms can have multiple meanings? Some people volunteered for servitude as a way to pay off debts in those days. But according to you, that is sick and immoral. Without knowing all the facts of the circumstances, you don't have a right to judge God here.
Any god that would justify the ownership of another person, because it was 'their culture' is a god that no one should worship. That kind of god is evil, and no spin makes it worthy of worship, unless one worships evil and evil doers.
How could you even try and justify slavery, or rape, by saying your god does no harm, so therefore it must be right. That is just so revolting. The only comments in the bible as to what to do about slaves is how to beat them, including Jesus. What a horrible morality, and if a human can't see that, how human are they?
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So it's less horrible for the woman to either starve to death or become a prostitute?
So we are justifying rape by blaming the victim, rather than the act or that woman's father being paid off by the rapist.
And you wonder why atheists are disgusted with where apologists say they get their morals from?
Seems like there is plenty of "holier than thou" attitudes coming from the "non-fundies" posters here to me.
You mean you do not like it when the tables are turned on you. Jesus never had a bad word to say to anyone other than the holier than thou fundamentalist.
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