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If death, IE the lake of fire is forever and ever and is the wages of sin, and Jesus died for our sins, Gods judgment being pour out on Him, and if no one escapes this death, is Jesus still in this lake of fire for all eternity?
Dear Alt Thinker,
Your thoughts on the above passage does not work with the chronology Paul laid down in that passage.
For instance, every enemy keeping mankind from God being All in all has not occurred at the end of the 1000 year reign. Also, for instance, death is not abolished at the end of the 1000 year reign nor during the new earth eon. Death, also called "the second death" is still keeping those held by it from God being All in all. That death also has to be done away. Christ and God reign on the new earth together. So He has, at those point in time, still not relinquished His reign.
Death and Hades are cast into the lake of fire which is the second death. There are only two possibilities for what "Death and Hedes" are.
It come related to this:
Rev_6:8 And I perceived, and lo! a greenish horse, and the name of him who is sitting upon it is Death, and the Hades [Unseen] followed him. And jurisdiction was given them over the fourth of the earth, to kill with the blade and with famine and with death and by the wild beasts of the earth."
Or it means that all humans held by death and hades are cast into the lake of fire. I believe it is the latter.
The Greek does not say the lake of fire is for ever and ever. It says it is for the "eons OF the eons." It is for the remainder of the 4th eon and the duration of the 5th eon. Those are the two greatest eons of all the eons that went before.
Correct, and as the word is plural it cannot mean eternal. What the heck is eternities of the eternities suppose to mean?
ASV Deuteronomy 33:27 The
eternal God is thy dwelling-place, And underneath are the everlasting arms.
And he thrust out the enemy from before thee, And said, Destroy.
OK,
that is without beginning or end.
A.T. the eternal God, spoken of here does NOT use the Hebrew word olam, it uses Qedem. they are not the same word.
ASV Isaiah 60:15 Whereas thou hast been forsaken and hated, so that no man
passed through thee, I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of
many generations.
A beginning and an end.
Young's literal reads
60:15 Instead of thy being forsaken and hated, And none passing through, I have made thee for an excellency age-during, A joy of generation and generation.
Even in your quote it is for many generations, does many generations = eternity? Just how many words are we going to have to say mean eternal?
ASV Matthew 19:16 And behold, one came to him and said,
Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal
life?
ASV Mark 10:30 but he shall receive a hundredfold now in this
time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands,
with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal
life.
ASV John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his
only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
ASV Romans 2:7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life:
In each of those scripture Young's literal has age during. In other words the life that pertains to that age.
Yep not just what you like, but more than you want.
Well seems I did have time before work to make an answer to your scriptures after all.
Whereas you use men to give you your understanding of what aion and its adjective to mean, I use the scriptures themselves, which state that the aion have a beginning and an end.
Gee, I wonder which one is more infallible, the scriptures or men.
You go ahead and stick with mans understanding, I will stick with what the scriptures actually state.
Guess which side this Animist/Heathen is rooting for?
Scripture ( I know you do not believe them, but all Christians are suppose to) states:
Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe, this command and teach.
We are commanded to teach that Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN according to that scripture.
So as an outsider, which side is teaching what we are commanded to teach in your opinion?
I have been told in the past that the above scripture cannot mean what it says because other scriptures tell us that people will be eternally tormented. So instead of reconciling the scriptures those who believe in eternal torment or annihilation try to prove the above scripture is wrong. They cannot reconcile what they believe with what we are commanded to teach. Yet all they have to do to reconcile the scriptures is to believe the scriptures when they say the aions have a beginning and have an end. Thus as we have been saying they mean age and that which pertains to the age.
So in effect they teach another gospel then what we are commanded to teach, all because of one word and its adjective.
Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN (that is universal salvation) specially of those that believe, this command and teach.
What are we commanded to teach?
Answer: Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, IE universal salvation.
What you teach is another gospel, the same gospel we are warned against.
What I present is simply what is in the scriptures. You are presenting oddball interpretations of isolated passages that have simpler and more straightforward explanations that are much more in tune with the rest of the scriptures. The scriptures say that salvation is available to everyone who does what Jesus says to get it - basically follow the commandments. Unending punishment for those who do not is explicitly stated in multiple places. Anyone getting out of hell is just not explicitly stated anywhere.
You can believe anything you want. But this thread is about what scripture says.
What I present is simply what is in the scriptures. You are presenting oddball interpretations of isolated passages that have simpler and more straightforward explanations that are much more in tune with the rest of the scriptures. The scriptures say that salvation is available to everyone who does what Jesus says to get it - basically follow the commandments. Unending punishment for those who do not is explicitly stated in multiple places. Anyone getting out of hell is just not explicitly stated anywhere.
You can believe anything you want. But this thread is about what scripture says.
No, what you presented was your interpitation of those scriptures, which I disagree with. Your basically saying that gate to the city is NOT a future event because if it is a future event then your whole post crumbles.
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