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Since I can't get away from wanting to do the works of Jesus because He is constantly "in my face," does that count? Do you go to sleep praying that God will give you an opportunity to be of personal, immediate service to someone, anyone in the coming day?
If not, what's wrong with your personal relationship?
This is not a difficult question. Relationship... two way communication - in this case, your inner spirit with the Holy Spirit...
You can work for Walmart - and not have a personal relationship with Sam Walton - yet, you would be doing his works. That's not a personal relationship. Just because you are doing works you perceive to be of Jesus does not indicate there's a relationship.
For myself, I pray to reflect God's light on others. I guess I try to be more God-centered than man-centered.
Does active relationship mean to you that at all costs you claim the bible is the inerrant infallible word of God, or something else, if something else please explain what it is by the scriptures. Thanks.
Yes to the underlined - taking into account there are human differences in the text - the main doctrines and principles and events are in tact.
"His Word" as in "direct revelation from God" as the Biblical text virtually always intends the phrase to mean?
Or were you referencing the modern day unfounded invention where "God's Word" means the Bible, only the Bible and nothing but the Bible?
Consider that if are incorrectly identifying "God's Word" as the Bible, only the Bible and nothing but the Bible -- then you're in the same boat as you seem to think others are in. By shoving God into a tidy little box known as the Bible, you are rejecting anything further that God might have to say and are rejecting the rest of God's Word.
In that context - "His Word" is the Bible.
I understand God still speaks today. He will not contradict the content He provided in the Bible.
This type of thread typically appeals to those who imagine that God has no standards of holiness or righteousness ... and that people should be able to live however they want, without the Bible or anyone else telling them differently. However, they should be able to tell anyone who trusts God and His inspired Word of truth ... how 'wrong, old-fashioned, non-progressive, narrow-minded, bigoted, fundamental, ignorant, etc' they are - without contradiction or correction.
Scripture/the Bible hasn't changed in thousands of years or "become" anything it hasn't always been? God, likewise, is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. God has never asked for human advice or a critique of His Word, ways, plans or purpose. God also has not grown more 'liberal, sophisticated or wise' ... even though many people imagine that they are qualified to instruct God and others in 'how things ought to be.' God-seekers, read and study the Bible for a better understanding of God, Jesus Christ, truth and wisdom.
Many seem to imagine they have some type of 'elite, special' Spiritual knowledge of God and Jesus Christ ... that is different than the information provided by scripture/the Bible. (The incorrectly reason that "the ancients didn't have or need scripture, so why should they?") These 'spiritually-minded individuals (not the Holy Spirit) seem to believe that they are imbued with a 'special' ability to pick-and-choose the parts of scripture/the Bible that God inspired and approves -- and are 'authorized' to 'instruct' others to do likewise and abandon the parts of scripture they do not understand. Like Saul of Tarsus when he set-out to imprison and persecute Christians, they seem to believe they are "doing God a favor" when they attack scripture and Bible-believers and 'teach' others to do likewise.
The Bible is only an "idol" in the minds of those who treat it as such, which does NOT include most Christ-loving, Spirit-led, Bible-believing Christians today! REAL IDOLS TODAY include: 'secular humanism, relative 'truth, self-esteem (over God-esteem), Gnosticism and a 'Tower of Babel-like wisdom and knowledge' some imagine they have. They 'look inside their own heads' or on CD forum or for any liberal bastion of Scripture-rejecting, human-opinion, which is much more of a false idol than any ancient object of worship made of stone or wood. These are the folks on every Christianity thread ... who offer-up secular 'wisdom' in place of Scripture-based truth!
This type of thread typically appeals to those who imagine that God has no standards of holiness or righteousness ... and that people should be able to live however they want, without the Bible or anyone else telling them differently. However, they should be able to tell anyone who trusts God and His inspired Word of truth ... how 'wrong, old-fashioned, non-progressive, narrow-minded, bigoted, fundamental, ignorant, etc' they are - without contradiction or correction.
Scripture/the Bible hasn't changed in thousands of years or "become" anything it hasn't always been? God, likewise, is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. God has never asked for human advice or a critique of His Word, ways, plans or purpose. God also has not grown more 'liberal, sophisticated or wise' ... even though many people imagine that they are qualified to instruct God and others in 'how things ought to be.' God-seekers, read and study the Bible for a better understanding of God, Jesus Christ, truth and wisdom.
Many seem to imagine they have some type of 'elite, special' Spiritual knowledge of God and Jesus Christ ... that is different than the information provided by scripture/the Bible. (The incorrectly reason that "the ancients didn't have or need scripture, so why should they?") These 'spiritually-minded individuals (not the Holy Spirit) seem to believe that they are imbued with a 'special' ability to pick-and-choose the parts of scripture/the Bible that God inspired and approves -- and are 'authorized' to 'instruct' others to do likewise and abandon the parts of scripture they do not understand. Like Saul of Tarsus when he set-out to imprison and persecute Christians, they seem to believe they are "doing God a favor" when they attack scripture and Bible-believers and 'teach' others to do likewise.
The Bible is only an "idol" in the minds of those who treat it as such, which does NOT include most Christ-loving, Spirit-led, Bible-believing Christians today! REAL IDOLS TODAY include: 'secular humanism, relative 'truth, self-esteem (over God-esteem), Gnosticism and a 'Tower of Babel-like wisdom and knowledge' some imagine they have. They 'look inside their own heads' or on CD forum or for any liberal bastion of Scripture-rejecting, human-opinion, which is much more of a false idol than any ancient object of worship made of stone or wood.
Do you have any supporting documentation for those claims? I have not seen that type of thinking in this thread.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 03-20-2015 at 10:18 AM..
Since I can't get away from wanting to do the works of Jesus because He is constantly "in my face," does that count? Do you go to sleep praying that God will give you an opportunity to be of personal, immediate service to someone, anyone in the coming day?
I've NO doubt He uses you, Warden. None.
How did the family that needed the new tires make out? Were you able to help them?
And I think we can agree that not every word in the Bible is God's Word. Case in point, Isaiah 19:10"Thus says the king: ‘Do not let Hezekiah deceive you, for he will not be able to deliver you out of my hand. 30 Do not let Hezekiah make you trust in the Lord by saying, The Lord will surely deliver us, and this city will not be given into the hand of the king of Assyria.’ " No, those are not the words of God. Those are the words of Rabshakeh, subcommander to King Sennacherib of Assyria. That is one of the reasons I don't care for the idea of throwing out a blanket statement "The Bible is God's Word." Well ... some of it isn't. You can't just flip it open to any page, point and know that whatever you read next is words spoken by God and written down by men. "The Bible is God's Word" is an incorrect oversimplification that can easily lead to some into error.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
In that context - "His Word" is the Bible.
No, I think that's backwards. "His Word is the Bible" can be taken to mean that it is His only word. I think "The Bible contains some of God's Word" is vastly more accurate.
Remember these things?
The words of God contained in the Bible are like the Collies. All Collies are dogs but no all dogs are Collies. Likewise, the words of God in the Bible are indeed God's Word, but not all of God's Word is found in the Bible. God is infinite, so in the spirit of John 21:25, the world couldn't contain all the books if the entire Word of God were to be written. Placing any limits on the inspired will and word of an infinite being is just silly anyways.
Quote:
I understand God still speaks today. He will not contradict the content He provided in the Bible.
Actually, God has the right to contradict the Bible if he so chooses. God is not subservient to the Bible.
God > Bible.
As God on Earth, Christ exercised the right to contradict the Bible when the adulterous woman was brought before him. If Christ had been unable to contradict the Bible, he would have order her to be stoned to death as the Bible (insofar as it existed at the time) demanded. The world was still under the Law of Moses at the time, wasn't it? But the God who gave the Law had the right to make exceptions to it. Later, He had the right to declare the Law fulfilled as well, effectively rewriting humankind's expected relationship with God.
If God wants to speak now, God can say whatever He wishes. God is not bound by the Bible. Claiming that He is -- that's where the Bible becomes an idol god.
But I do agree with you in principal. We know that God is good and that God cannot lie. He's not going to order us to do bad things. He's not going to tell us that Jesus was a phoney. That sort of thing.
I struggle with this to tell ya truth. I don't have the answer. "The Honor System" is not really that good in practice. I think it's a great idea, but when it hits the streets "fraud" mucks it up. For people like me "hope" isn't really the end game, I am kind of a numbers jerk-O. But for some it really is needed. How do we help those in the real world?
This is not a difficult question. Relationship... two way communication - in this case, your inner spirit with the Holy Spirit...
You can work for Walmart - and not have a personal relationship with Sam Walton - yet, you would be doing his works. That's not a personal relationship. Just because you are doing works you perceive to be of Jesus does not indicate there's a relationship.
For myself, I pray to reflect God's light on others. I guess I try to be more God-centered than man-centered.
And the last line should reflect how you read scripture--through the interpretive lens of Jesus rather than the other way around?
Just because you believe in an inerrant and infallible Bible does not indicate there is a relationship with Christ. How did Jesus word it? "By their belief in a holy, inerrant and infallible Bible you will know them?"
Or was it, "By their fruit you shall know them." No fruit, no worry about being mistaken for a follower of Jesus.
The same people who reject the Bible today would have rejected Jesus if seen \ heard in person.
Actually, I take the opposite viewpoint. The Bibliolaters are the ones who are rigid and doctrinaire in thinking. After all, remember that those who rejected Him were people far too reliant on the Tanakh, which means that they couldn't see what was plainly before their own eyes.
They have to be that way, for literalism does not allow it. Pull out a single passage of the Bible and it utterly shreds their argument that every word, every syllable was the utterance of God. For the Author of the Universe would not make mistakes.
Yet contradictions in scripture abound, chiefly because its writers were men who did their level best to recount real events that often happened 40 years in the past. This is plainly evident in the Synoptic Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke where each describes the same event in ways that are different and irreconcilable. I mean, Christ's last words is just one example. Did He say, "Oh, Lord, why have you forsaken me," "Into your hands I commend my spirit," or "It is finished?" Each book describes one of those as Christ's last words, and each has a completely different theological impact. And those are just the Synoptic Gospels. John comes in from a completely different perspective. Did Mary Magdalene go to the tomb alone or with other women? The accounts disagree on this. So only one can be accurate. Did the Last Supper occur on Passover or on Passover Eve? Again, the accounts disagree. Did Christ's ministry occupy one year or three?
Even between manuscripts of the same biblical books, there are differences. As one example, the story of the adulteress in John 8 does not appear in some of the earliest known manuscripts, which leads many scholars to believe that this is a later addition. In short, the contradictions multiply. In each of these, the literalist has to fight some pretty obvious textual differences to the death, while the rest of us can shrug and focus instead on the big picture.
And that, at its heart, is the problem with scriptural literalism. It is not faith, despite what the literalists say. Instead, it is the requirement of proof. For if your belief in God and Christ rely on the Bible being a 100% faithful account of events, pulling out even one verse shatters your worldview. So the doctrine's defenders have to go through some incredibly convoluted efforts to defend their beliefs from some rather obvious contradictions. Christ's genealogies in Luke and Matthew are utterly different, as one example, disagreeing even on Christ's grandfather. Now some apologists claim that Hebrew genealogies exclude women. But women were noted in Christ's bloodline, which means only one genealogy can be right, making the other genealogy wrong. So you have the very odd situation of literalists having to heavily interpret two contradictory passages from the Bible. These are the kind of excesses that literalists must employ in order to defend a flawed approach to our faith.
Last edited by cpg35223; 03-20-2015 at 11:38 AM..
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