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Most of thsoe who post against the inspiration, value, integrity, need, etc of the Bible and claim they are led by God's spirit.
Again, the question was could he show where non-literalist Christians actually believed or thought what he said they did. You did not answer that. As a matter of fact, do you have anything to add to the conversation other than your consistent imaginings of what goes on in other people's minds and hearts? All I've seen you post on the subject are wacky, incorrect statements about what non-literalists' motives are. It sounds as if all you can do is point fingers at other people and scream "YOU'RE BAD!" Have you nothing more than that to say? What is your point in posting?
This type of thread typically appeals to those who imagine that God has no standards of holiness or righteousness ... and that people should be able to live however they want, without the Bible or anyone else telling them differently. However, they should be able to tell anyone who trusts God and His inspired Word of truth ... how 'wrong, old-fashioned, non-progressive, narrow-minded, bigoted, fundamental, ignorant, etc' they are - without contradiction or correction.
That's a completely unfounded generalization. In my experience, those who approach the Bible realistically are often the best at living their lives according to Christ's teachings. Example: Know many Mormons? They're extremely devoted to Christ, they actually keep the Sabbath, they are extremely good at helping those in need, they are about as old fashioned as you get when it comes to morality, they really do turn the other cheek ... and yet they do not consider the Bible to be closed, complete nor the only written word of God. How do you suppose that happened? And they are not just an anomaly. There are several others that I just can't think of right this moment.
There are a lot of problems with much of the rest of what you've said. For example, the canonized books of the Bible has changed several times in the past 1000 years. Christianity does not agree on a scriptural canon today. It seems to me that the true elitists are the Sola Scriptura Protestants. They seem to be constantly condemning others to hell for disagreeing with them. Ironically, this is most often done over completely non-Biblical concepts such as the Trinity.
The ancients didn't have a tidy little box like the Bible to shove God into. They believed that at any moment God might speak to them -- either directly or through one of his messengers. They had to filter out the true prophets from the false once. As I've said earlier, if you had lived back in Biblical times and met Elijah in person, how would you sort that he's a prophet of God? He didn't look any different than any other person. The king and queen wanted him dead. Would you have been able to correctly identify him as a prophet??
Limiting God to the Bible is laziness. It's easier. It exempts you from having to be completely led by God. It is also incredibly arrogant to suggest that God has nothing further to say. There are more people alive today than there ever have been in human history. Advances in technology have changed everything. Our lives are very different from the people of Biblical times. Why wouldn't God speak to us directly right now? Why would anyone have the audacity to claim that God can't?
Yes to the underlined - taking into account there are human differences in the text - the main doctrines and principles and events are in tact.
So your relationship is with the bible, and the spirit is the matchmaker.......... Hey Dr Rob this is the Holy Spirit talking to you, can i introduce you to the bible, i am sure the both of you will get along just fine.
As God on Earth, Christ exercised the right to contradict the Bible when the adulterous woman was brought before him. If Christ had been unable to contradict the Bible, he would have order her to be stoned to death as the Bible (insofar as it existed at the time) demanded. The world was still under the Law of Moses at the time, wasn't it? But the God who gave the Law had the right to make exceptions to it. Later, He had the right to declare the Law fulfilled as well, effectively rewriting humankind's expected relationship with God.
I read this and shake my head. Christ contradicted the Bible, even though what He did in not stoning the woman is in the Bible. I know what you mean - but I will let you figure it out on your own terms.
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So I am wrapping up my involvement here.
Without a relationship with God through the Holy Spirit, you will be unable to regard the Bible and its content in the light He intended. You will merely see it from a human perspective. You will see the human authors - not the divine inspiration. You will see the works, but not the importance of the cross. You will read of the miracles, and not believe in God's power to make the miracles possible.
One of the things Jesus said before leaving the earth is that He would never leave his disciples as orphans. He would come to them. That occurs through the Holy Spirit. The presence of the Father and Son is in all who believe in Him. For those who have a relationship with Christ, the Bible is an extension of His ministry. It is not separate from His ministry. It is not an idol. It's a record of His dealings with humanity. It doesn't include every single thing - but it contains the content He wants to communicate to those who follow Him.
So your relationship is with the bible, and the spirit is the matchmaker.......... Hey Dr Rob this is the Holy Spirit talking to you, can i introduce you to the bible, i am sure the both of you will get along just fine.
I am not Dr Rob. Someone PM'ed me and asked about that. Never heard of him... I'm not him.
I read this and shake my head. Christ contradicted the Bible, even though what He did in not stoning the woman is in the Bible. I know what you mean - but I will let you figure it out on your own terms.
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So I am wrapping up my involvement here.
Without a relationship with God through the Holy Spirit, you will be unable to regard the Bible and its content in the light He intended. You will merely see it from a human perspective. You will see the human authors - not the divine inspiration. You will see the works, but not the importance of the cross. You will read of the miracles, and not believe in God's power to make the miracles possible.
One of the things Jesus said before leaving the earth is that He would never leave his disciples as orphans. He would come to them. That occurs through the Holy Spirit. The presence of the Father and Son is in all who believe in Him. For those who have a relationship with Christ, the Bible is an extension of His ministry. It is not separate from His ministry. It is not an idol. It's a record of His dealings with humanity. It doesn't include every single thing - but it contains the content He wants to communicate to those who follow Him.
Did you notice, he never said look out for the bible when it appears in the bookstores after he said he would come to them and not leave them orphans?.
You will disagree with this, but when you say Spirit you really mean bible, and when you learn it you think you have been illuminated by the spirit. Learning the bible is one thing, understanding the spirit of it is another.
I read this and shake my head. Christ contradicted the Bible, even though what He did in not stoning the woman is in the Bible. I know what you mean - but I will let you figure it out on your own terms.
-----------------------
So I am wrapping up my involvement here.
Without a relationship with God through the Holy Spirit, you will be unable to regard the Bible and its content in the light He intended. You will merely see it from a human perspective. You will see the human authors - not the divine inspiration. You will see the works, but not the importance of the cross. You will read of the miracles, and not believe in God's power to make the miracles possible.
One of the things Jesus said before leaving the earth is that He would never leave his disciples as orphans. He would come to them. That occurs through the Holy Spirit. The presence of the Father and Son is in all who believe in Him. For those who have a relationship with Christ, the Bible is an extension of His ministry. It is not separate from His ministry. It is not an idol. It's a record of His dealings with humanity. It doesn't include every single thing - but it contains the content He wants to communicate to those who follow Him.
And if the Holy Spirit guided the authorship of every single verse of the Bible, then how come there are so many contradictory passages? We're talking about contradictions within the Synoptic Gospels of specific events.
Again, here's the problem with your argument. You're arguing that those who try to read the Bible with discernment are less godly than you are. You are essentially stating that the Holy Spirit speaks to you but not to us. It's really self-aggrandizement on your part, and not a little bit egotistical.
And why do you not think that the Holy Spirit doesn't move us to truly understand what actually happened? Instead, you swallow whole the notion of infallible scripture without giving the least bit of consideration that perhaps Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John all witnessed incredible things, but were subject to the vagaries of memory. The variations in text to me, a careful reader, seem obvious in that regard. I do not think it is wrong to consider that possibility.
In that sense, you have more kinship with the pharisees of Christ's day, because you are far more interested in the letter of the text than its guiding spirit.
I read this and shake my head. Christ contradicted the Bible, even though what He did in not stoning the woman is in the Bible. ..
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Don't go away just yet, it sounds like you might be onto something and I'd like to understand what you mean about the apparent contradiction between the Law and Jesus' action.
I read this and shake my head. Christ contradicted the Bible, even though what He did in not stoning the woman is in the Bible. I know what you mean - but I will let you figure it out on your own terms.
-----------------------
So I am wrapping up my involvement here.
Without a relationship with God through the Holy Spirit, you will be unable to regard the Bible and its content in the light He intended. You will merely see it from a human perspective. You will see the human authors - not the divine inspiration. You will see the works, but not the importance of the cross. You will read of the miracles, and not believe in God's power to make the miracles possible.
One of the things Jesus said before leaving the earth is that He would never leave his disciples as orphans. He would come to them. That occurs through the Holy Spirit. The presence of the Father and Son is in all who believe in Him. For those who have a relationship with Christ, the Bible is an extension of His ministry. It is not separate from His ministry. It is not an idol. It's a record of His dealings with humanity. It doesn't include every single thing - but it contains the content He wants to communicate to those who follow Him.
You didn't respond to anything I said. Just a brief schpeel about how you are led by the Holy Spirit and I am not.
You cannot comprehend how entirely wrong you are. I know that God is better than I know that I am alive. I didn't gain that strong of a witness by failing to experience the Holy Spirit. And I happen to absolutely love the Bible too.
That's not what this thread is about. This thread is about the very modern human invention of elevating the Bible to godlike status. It is about some who place the Bible higher in authority than God. This thread is about a clear example of, "teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."
Godofthunder, you are correct in saying that they have given the bible god like status.
Here is what Jesus Christ himself said to them who did the same thing back then............Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
He said this because He knew what they had done with scriptures, he also knew that they by doing what they did to them, cast a veil of ignorance over their own minds, that they could not hear what was being said in the Spirit of the Father.
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