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Isn't it interesting that people who in the past have argued people are born gay are now arguing they are NOT
Now they argue it is the opposite, that it is a LEARNED behaviour.
Which is it?
You have a way of twisting things in your own mind, try being straight-up for a change.
Although, I have the feeling that you cannot be anything other than what you are?
You have a way of twisting things in your own mind, try being straight for a change.
Although, I have the feeling that you cannot be anything other than what your are?
Ah, the good old mud kicking Jerwade Always taking personal stabs.
Did you have trouble understnding what the other posters said? Why don't you read the posts. They were crystal clear people are not born with sexual desires. The other one even said it would be the result of a dark spirit.
Ah, the good old mud kicking Jerwade Always taking personal stabs.
Did you have trouble understnding what the other posters said? Why don't you read the posts. They were crystal clear people are not born with sexual desires. The other one even said it would be the result of a dark spirit.
That may be what posters WRITE, but it's not how science explains it.
Quote:
Conventional wisdom in the old-school psychological sciences was that homosexuality was caused by nurture. Overbearing mothers and distant fathers were thought to induce homosexual tendencies in children, according to early psychoanalytic theory. Today, this is a laughable assumption, rooted firmly in nothing. No published studies support this claim. In fact, recent studies are revealing that genes, environment, brain structure, and hormones all seem to have a mixed role in sexual orientation and preferences. We know that sexuality has a strong physiological component, and we can study this through twin studies, investigation of genetic markers, and exploration of sexual orientation and behavior in nature (animals in the wild or captivity).
the new theory suggests that homosexuality is caused by epigenetic marks, or “epi-marks,†related to sensitivity to hormones in the womb. These are compounds that sit on DNA and regulate how active, or inactive certain genes are, and also control when during development these genes are most prolific. Gavrilets and his colleagues believe that gene expression may regulate how a fetus responds to testosterone, the all-important male sex hormone. They further argue that epi-marks may help to buffer a female fetus from high levels of testosterone by suppressing receptors that respond to testosterone, for example, (thus ensuring normal fetal development even in the presence of a lot of testosterone) or to buffer a male fetus from low levels of testosterone by upregulating receptors that bind to the hormone (ensuring normal fetal development even in the absence of high levels of testosterone). Normally, these epi-marks are erased after they are activated, but if those marks are passed down to the next generation, the same epi-marks that protected a man in utero may cause oversensitivity to testosterone among his daughters, and the epi-marks that protected a woman in utero may lead to undersensitivity to testosterone among her sons.
Ah, the good old mud kicking Jerwade Always taking personal stabs.
Did you have trouble understanding what the other posters said? Why don't you read the posts. They were crystal clear people are not born with sexual desires. The other one even said it would be the result of a dark spirit.
One poster, does not equate to every poster on the forum. Perhaps, I misunderstood your intention?
Then again, you also make it sound like you were born with an erection, fornicating from the womb?
However, if you meant inborn desires that surface later in life - that would be a different matter.
Finn, that's what discernment is about. Rules are fine until a problem comes up and then they need to be re-examined in the light of new conditions or information. When we think they are set in stone is when the trouble comes. Obviously, there are some rules like murder that are just not going to change, because "murder" is about malice toward the victim, but there is a whole range of what are seen as rules that can change any day because the conditions that govern them change, or we gain more insight into the conditions. If I worship false gods, does it harm my relationship with the Father?
Please really think about these things and don't just give me reactions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
It seems you are finally begining to understand why its about more than just avoiding harming other people. I am glad I got you thinking
Finn, I have understood this all along, I was trying to get YOU to see this. NOone thinks that "harm" is as simplistic as your posts have painted our concepts.
When will you wake up? It is not me that is not thinking things through, and THAT is why I asked you to actually really think about it instead of giving me nothing but a reaction.
I didn't think it would work, but I had to try.
Zthatzmanz, Thank you for the example. I think it was a critical time.
Finn, I have understood this all along, I was trying to get YOU to see this. NOone thinks that "harm" is as simplistic as your posts have painted our concepts.
LOL My whole point has been that it is about more than simply avoiding hurting other people. I couldn't have made it more clear. Why do you think I asked why there is a problem with sins which do not hurt other people? You didn't see it until I mentioned worshipping false gods, which is one of the many examples I offered about sins which do not hurt other people.
Your actions might not hurt other people, but they can still hurt your relationship with God. That is my point.
Well, like I said, I am glad you finally get it, even if you are too proud to admit it.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 07-04-2015 at 05:07 PM..
LOL My whole point has been that it is about more than simply avoiding hurting other people. I couldn't have made it more clear. Why do you think I asked why there is a problem with sins which do not hurt other people? You didn't see it until I mentioned worshipping false gods, which is one of the many examples I offered about sins which do not hurt other people.
Your actions might not hurt other people, but they can still hurt your relationship with God. That is my point.
Well, like I said, I am glad you finally get it, even if you are too proud to admit it.
Fine, if that's the way you see it. Let's get back to the point at hand, how does a loving relationship hurt two gay people, either in their personal fulfillment or in their relationship with God when the concern both of God and man is the well-being (in this case, the fulfilling relationship) of the people concerned?
Like I said I could not have made my point more clear. I can only wonder what you thought I was saying.
Quote:
Let's get back to the point at hand, how does a loving relationship hurt two gay people, either in their personal fulfillment or in their relationship with God when the concern both of God and man is the well-being (in this case, the fulfilling relationship) of the people concerned?
For a while I thought you understood it, but obviosuly I was wrong. You went right back to "anything goes if it doesn't hurt people".
I do not wish to repeat what I have already told you.
You also suggest God approves anything which makes people feel 'happy' even if it is sinful. I disagree with that view.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 07-04-2015 at 06:22 PM..
I just read what Greg Laurie's stance on the newest court ruling.
"Nobody is born a gay," the megachurch pastor said. "One may be tempted with attraction for the same-sex, which can be resisted," he explained, and read out a letter a former lesbian woman wrote to him about how she turned away from homosexuality after her conversion as she listened to his messages on the radio.
I respect him and think he's great, but I am saddened/alarmed/hesitant to believe what he is saying. I believe gays ARE born that way, just as heteros are born that way. So what he is saying, is if you feel that attraction you fight it. Like it's so easy??? What if it's not? What if the opposite sex completely repulses you? You are supposed to not be with anyone for your whole life???? So the lesbian wrote a letter; so she's one person, out of millions, that's great it worked for her, doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
This is what gets me about this. No premarital sex? Fine. I can live with that because I know I will meet someone and (re)marry eventually. (even though I'm 47!!) But a 20 year old who wants to love Jesus but is gay. That poor person! I would hate to be in their shoes!
How does that ' pastor ' know genetics are Not involved ? Researchers found male fish with female brains, etc.
Whether genetics or not, it could be like a person leaning toward being an alcoholic would Not be encouraged to use alcohol, or give up his fight against that tendency just because he has leanings in that direction.
Please keep in mind that we are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' on earth - Matthew 25 vs 31,32
That means Jesus will soon usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill, and that includes healing any imperfections we might have. - Revelation 22:2 - so although 20 years old the ' wait ', so to speak, will Not be a long wait.
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Always taking personal stabs. 
My whole point has been that it is about more than simply avoiding hurting other people. I couldn't have made it more clear. Why do you think I asked why there is a problem with sins which do not hurt other people? You didn't see it until I mentioned worshipping false gods, which is one of the many examples I offered about sins which do not hurt other people. 
