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Is it alright, if I come to your business to buy a cake? How about obtaining a marriage license, according to the law of the land in which we live? And you say, you do not discriminate? Just for the record, love does not discriminate, neither does it condemn other people.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
You are welcome to buy any baked goods that doesn't require me to get involved with your immoral wedding ceremony.
An 'immoral wedding ceremony'? That's a term that you've made up or, rather, a term you're parroting that others have made up. It doesn't make a lick of sense and yet you use that term as though it does make sense.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
If we were truly discriminating based on you as an individual, we wouldn't take ANY business from you. But yes, we will discriminate against gay marriage because it is wrong to force us to violate our religious beliefs just so you can have your cake.
Your religious beliefs on this issue don't amount to a hill of beans. They are based on a biased and persistently regurgitated interpretation of words from a book that you and yours believe actually came from a Creator God.
Jeff, when the original authors penned the Bible, how many of them would have known what a homosexual - or a heterosexual for that matter - was? I'm just guessing but I would have to say ...zero. This is why all scriptural references to same gender sex practices MUST be interpreted within the context that they were written, i.e. sexual rituals and worship practices affiliated with pagan idols.
Are you ever going to refute (take up the challenge) this take on those so-called 'clobber texts' or are you man enough to rather admit - in actual words - that you simply cannot refute this ...? I see that your other compatriots, i.e. Baptist Fundie, SumTingy, scgraham, etc. have left the scene rather than to take on my challenge. And that is most telling!
The ones on my side seek to love God and our fellow human beings. We don't discriminate in that way unlike your side.
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Originally Posted by Jerwade
Is it alright, if I come to your business to buy a cake? How about obtaining a marriage license, according to the law of the land in which we live? And you say, you do not discriminate? Just for the record, love does not discriminate, neither does it condemn other people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
You are welcome to buy any baked goods that doesn't require me to get involved with your immoral wedding ceremony. If we were truly discriminating based on you as an individual, we wouldn't take ANY business from you. But yes, we will discriminate against gay marriage because it is wrong to force us to violate our religious beliefs just so you can have your cake.
Baking a cake does not mean you are a member of the wedding party, nor have you been invited.
You are merely a vendor who is using and hiding behind his religion to discriminate against others.
And, yes, it would be discrimination on the basis of the individual if you serve or cater to the public.
Baking a cake does not mean you are a member of the wedding party, nor have you been invited.
You are merely a vendor who is using and hiding behind his religion to discriminate against others.
And, yes, it would be discrimination on the basis of the individual if you serve or cater to the public.
No it means I would have played a small role in helping a person's sinful act come off as a success.
I pay taxes because I'm forced to do so. You give your money as a GIFT to encourage those who say homosexuals should be murdered in Africa.
You are free to move to another country that doesn't give foreign aid like the US. Yet you choose to stay and donate towards hurting people. I give to help a church pay for operating costs and ministries.
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Originally Posted by Wardendresden
You love yourself and your "rights." Jesus had no "rights" (and if one compel you to go with him a mile, go with him two) and suggested "sinners" should be put ahead of self, which time and again you have refused to do. How can you talk about believing the Bible when you don't practice what Jesus taught in word and deed?
We all love ourselves because it is part of our sin nature. We are called to die to self.
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Originally Posted by Wardendresden
Your "side" murders people in houses of worship. Care to explain how that makes your "side" look good?
A person who seeks to murder others would most likely have demonic spirits. You can't be a Bible believing Christian and have murder and hate in your heart. So now, they are not on my "side".
What's next, playing "you're a Pharisee" or "you're a homosexual" card again?
No it means I would have played a small role in helping a person's sinful act come off as a success.
Was that ever a concern of Jesus? As I recall, he was infamous for hanging out with the people that the religious crowd considered sinners. Shoot, he didn’t even wait for them to ask him; he invited himself.
. Shoot, he didn’t even wait for them to ask him; he invited himself.
So funny, how some pick up on these things!! I never thought about that one, Pleroo!
Heck, he invited himself...to dine with the most hated people ...Jewish Tax Collectors for Rome.
(You know as long as Rome got there quota, see, the Tax collectors kept the rest and gouged their neighbors!...that's
why they were so hated. I heard.)
Was that ever a concern of Jesus? As I recall, he was infamous for hanging out with the people that the religious crowd considered sinners. Shoot, he didn’t even wait for them to ask him; he invited himself.
Jesus never encouraged people to keep on sinning. He chased the money changers out of the temple and preached firmly against sin.
Jesus never encouraged people to keep on sinning. He chased the money changers out of the temple and preached firmly against sin.
The point is, apparently Jesus wasn't under the impression that hanging out with people -- going to their homes, participating in their lives -- was tantamount to him encouraging them to sin. Quite the opposite, actually. When love shows up, it transforms.
An 'immoral wedding ceremony'? That's a term that you've made up or, rather, a term you're parroting that others have made up. It doesn't make a lick of sense and yet you use that term as though it does make sense.
it is immoral. Anything going against God's Will is sin. And God's will for marriage was clearly defined in Genesis 2:24. And guess who also affirmed that design? Jesus.
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Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
Your religious beliefs on this issue don't amount to a hill of beans. They are based on a biased and persistently regurgitated interpretation of words from a book that you and yours believe actually came from a Creator God.
Ok, so why should your beliefs on this matter amount to anything? Yeah my opinion is just that, my opinion. If my comments upsets pro-gay people then by all means skip over my replies. However, my beliefs are shared by the majority of Christian denominations. Baptists, Penecostal, Catholics and Methodists all belief in the Bible as the Word of God.
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Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
Jeff, when the original authors penned the Bible, how many of them would have known what a homosexual - or a heterosexual for that matter - was? I'm just guessing but I would have to say ...zero. This is why all scriptural references to same gender sex practices MUST be interpreted within the context that they were written, i.e. sexual rituals and worship practices affiliated with pagan idols.
Why, because they did not have a Hebrew word specifically tailored to that type of activity? Just because a word didn't exist doesn't mean people were not doing it. There would be no need to ban same sex activity in Leviticus if people didn't even know what it was.
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Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
Are you ever going to refute (take up the challenge) this take on those so-called 'clobber texts' or are you man enough to rather admit - in actual words - that you simply cannot refute this ...? I see that your other compatriots, i.e. Baptist Fundie, SumTingy, scgraham, etc. have left the scene rather than to take on my challenge. And that is most telling![/color]
I've already taken up your challenge. It would simply be exhausting to cover all that ground again when I know 100% that you are just going to keep playing this pagan worship context card. The context doesn't change the meaning of a verse. In Romans 1:26, the verse clearly says that same sex lusting is unnatural.
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For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
1 Timothy 1:10 says nothing about pagan worship. Your whole argument has to stem on what is the correct interpretation of arsenokoitai. And sorry, you have no concrete proof that the term does not refer to same sex relations. I have faith that our modern day translation got it correct and that these verses strongly condemn homosexual activiity.
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Leviticus18:22and 20:13 forbid a man lying with another man as one would with a woman. Leviticus was originally written in Hebrew, but Paul was a Greek-educated Jew writing to Gentiles in Greek, the common language of the day, and probably was using the Greek translation of the Old Testament available in that day, the Septuagint, or LXX, for his Scripture quotations.
The Greek translation of these Leviticus passages condemns a man (arseno) lying with (koitai) another man (arseno); these words (excuse the pun) lie side-by-side in these passages in Leviticus. Paul joins these two words together into a neologism, a new word (as we do in saying database or software), and thus he condemns in 1Corinthians and 1Timothy what was condemned in Leviticus.
It's obvious that jeff and other fundies will never let go of their hatred, fear, and bigotry. They need it. It nurtures the darkness of their spirits.
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