Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No...it's called reading it in context. Just read the chapter. He isn't speaking about salvation to other people that don't recognize him -- but to others that HE saves. Just read it without any presuppositions about what it must mean.
Fortunately, most Christian pastors of a non-fundamentalist bent - which, thankfully, are most Christian pastors - are far wiser than you, or your slippery God-Guru, at parsing Christ's message.
What do you think he meant when he said that HE was the way, the truth and the life and that NO ONE gets to the Father but through him? Where does that suggest that God smiles on other religions that don't include Jesus?
In any cultural context, deeply embedded errors and attitudes can be difficult to change.
Imposing your beliefs of a Penal Substitution upon others, does not make it the truth.
Funny...I immediately thought that imposing your beliefs against Penal Substitution doesn't make it truth. Why not just read what the Bible says?
What do you think he meant when he said that HE was the way, the truth and the life and that NO ONE gets to the Father but through him? Where does that suggest that God smiles on other religions that don't include Jesus?
It means the Buddhists go through Jesus to get to God. Jesus, who, of course, is in Heaven, says, "Welcome Buddhists! You didn't expect to see me, did you? Not to worry. The Christians didn't expect to see you. I'm going to morph now and you'll be able to pass through me to see God in all His glory. Enjoy! Sorry to be so brief but the atheists are right behind you and I'm can't wait to see the look on their faces so I wanted to speed things up."
What do you think he meant when he said that HE was the way, the truth and the life and that NO ONE gets to the Father but through him? Where does that suggest that God smiles on other religions that don't include Jesus?
I don't believe for one second "he" said anything of the sort.
I think one of the anonymous scribes who wrote part of one of the pamphlets that were later collated by Constantinople and deemed to be written by guys channeling god wrote it.
Because if Jesus really existed and he was really an intelligent man, he wouldn't say anything so grandiose and frankly, stupid.
I don't believe for one second "he" said anything of the sort.
I think one of the anonymous scribes who wrote part of one of the pamphlets that were later collated by Constantinople and deemed to be written by guys channeling god wrote it.
Because if Jesus really existed and he was really an intelligent man, he wouldn't say anything so grandiose and frankly, stupid.
There ya go. At least you're honest. You are willing to say you just don't believe the Bible at all. There are others that CLAIM to follow the Word of God but they ignore it.
I asmit to more than a little astonishment that ANY 21st century mind could ever credit such a barbarous concept as blood sacrifices to appease God, let alone a human blood sacrifice!!! It is such a monstrous idea born of primitive and savage minds that the idea that any modern enlightened consciousness would ever credit it just blows me away. When I see how widespread this barbarous idea is within Christianity, I weep for humanity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopefish
I think the problem with this explanation is that it's a manmade explanation for God's actions. God is greater than anything we can comprehend. Who are we to say whether or not Jesus' sacrifice is barbarous, or offensive to God - as Richard contended?
I find it incomprehensible how anyone who remotely tries to learn the morality espoused and demonstrated by Jesus could EVER NOT see the barbarity and savagery in the belief about blood sacrifices of innocents as something that would please or appease a God who IS agape love!!! The preposterousness of it is mind boggling!
No...it's called reading it in context. Just read the chapter. He isn't speaking about salvation to other people that don't recognize him -- but to others that HE saves. Just read it without any presuppositions about what it must mean.
(penal substitutionary atonement) is actually a relatively recent concept. In fact, it only became a part of Christian teaching about 1600 years after Jesus was crucified.
Here is context...Independent reading through the lens of CRITICAL THOUGHT--
I find it incomprehensible how anyone who remotely tries to learn the morality espoused and demonstrated by Jesus could EVER NOT see the barbarity and savagery in the belief about blood sacrifices of innocents as something that would please or appease a God who IS agape love!!! The preposterousness of it is mind boggling!
Also consider that God does not lie. If he said death would be the result of sin, then that is the result. God is love, but God is also all–knowing, all–powerful, omnipresent, unchanging, holy, just, long–suffering, gracious, righteous, and merciful. I don't think agape love alone is enough to define God or anything he does. Jesus, who is God and knows all God knows, even tried to plead with God to change his mind and pass his "cup" to someone else. Yet, Jesus also prayed that God's will be done, and regardless of whether or not we understand His will, it is good and unfathomably superior to ours in every way.
I don't believe for one second "he" said anything of the sort.
I think one of the anonymous scribes who wrote part of one of the pamphlets that were later collated by Constantinople and deemed to be written by guys channeling god wrote it.
Because if Jesus really existed and he was really an intelligent man, he wouldn't say anything so grandiose and frankly, stupid.
It's not stupid at all Trout, he was speaking as the alter of incense which stands before the throne of God.
The incense would symbolize the prayers that go up to the father in the smoke, and what he was saying is that he was that alter by which people offer prayers through him, through that alter and from there to God.
''Nobody but Nobody gets to the father unless they burn that incense through that alter.''
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 11-03-2015 at 02:03 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
