Can Satan speak the truth? (Jehovah, disciple, Jews, Apostle)
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I do not believe in Calvinism. Also, what you have stated here is doctrine not the Bible. You have also assumed that you do know what God determines to be right and wrong, but you can't be right because it was said, "Just and right belong to God to determine." By that you have nullified your own assumption. What I see in this reply is John Calvin's words and doctrines not God's. So the idea that Satan along with he wicked ways are God's doing will be rejected because it cannot undo the fact that the Bible says that Satan was at one time did 'stand fast in the truth'.
I'm sure there are a 100 threads on predestination I am not interested in starting another one as it comes down to one question. Do you believe in interpretations of John Calvin? I do not. You said there was nothing in the Bible alluded to that Satan being created as a good upright person. But there is something in the Bible that says Satan did start off in truth. So you were incorrect in your statement. Yet in your reply why you are going to explain why you were wrong about your first statement? It seems you're more concerned with being right then finding truth.
I said nothing about predestination. Nor did I suggest that God overtly caused anything. I am simply talking about foreknowledge. Either God has perfect foreknowledge, and knows all possible outcome in advance. Or God does not have foreknowledge and is therefore fallible. If God is omnipotent and omniscient then God gets the results He intends to get without fail.
Both of these statements were made by the same person. Which one is true and which one is a lie?
Genesis 3:4, "You certainly will not die." (speaking of eating from the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge)
Luke 4:6, "“I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish." (speaking of all the kingdoms of the world)
I ask this because someone once said that Satan always lies yet that person believes that a person's spirit lives forever. It seems to me that a person can't say Satan always lies if Genesis 3:4 is true but then say that Satan is lying in Luke 4:6.
It seems to me that Genesis 3:4 is the lie and in Luke 4:6 Satan is speaking the truth. So can Satan say something that is true?
Since Lucifer is one of the most intelligent beings ever created by God I'm sure Lucifer could say tell you if something is hot, cold, dry or wet. Lucifer could tell you that you're on earth. Yes Lucifer can make true statements!
Since Lucifer is one of the most intelligent beings ever created by God I'm sure Lucifer could say tell you if something is hot, cold, dry or wet. Lucifer could tell you that you're on earth. Yes Lucifer can make true statements!
Lucifer has nothing to do with the Biblical Satan whatsoever. Conflating Satan with Lucifer is pure Christian mythology and nothing more.
Wikipedia
Lucifer (/ˈluːsɪfər/;[1][2][3] loo-sif-ər) is the King James Version rendering of the Hebrew word הֵילֵל in Isaiah 14:12. This word, transliterated hêlêl[4] or heylel,[5] occurs only once in the Hebrew Bible[4] and according to the KJV based Strong's Concordance means "shining one, light bearer".[5] The Septuagint renders הֵילֵל in Greek as ἑωσφόρος[6][7][8][9][10] (heōsphoros),[11][12][13] a name, literally "bringer of dawn", for the morning star.[14]
The word Lucifer is taken from the Latin Vulgate,[15] which translates הֵילֵל as lucifer,[16][17] meaning "the morning star, the planet Venus", or, as an adjective, "light-bringing".[18]
Later Christian tradition came to use the Latin word for "morning star", lucifer, as a proper name ("Lucifer") for the devil; as he was before his fall.[19] As a result, "'Lucifer' has become a by-word for Satan/the Devil in the church and in popular literature",[15] as in Dante Alighieri's Inferno and John Milton's Paradise Lost.[13] However, the Latin word never came to be used almost exclusively, as in English, in this way, and was applied to others also, including Jesus.[20] The image of a morning star fallen from the sky is generally believed among scholars to have a parallel in Canaanite mythology.[21]
However, according to both Christian[22] and Jewish exegesis, in the Book of Isaiah, chapter 14, the King of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar II, conqueror of Jerusalem, is condemned in a prophetic vision by the prophet Isaiah and is called the "Morning Ha" (planet Venus).[23][24] In this chapter the Hebrew text says הֵילֵל בֶּן-שָׁחַר (Helel ben Shaḥar, "shining one, son of the morning").[25] "Helel ben Shaḥar" may refer to the Morning Star, but the text in Isaiah 14 gives no indication that Helel was a star or planet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer
Lucifer has nothing to do with the Biblical Satan whatsoever. Conflating Satan with Lucifer is pure Christian mythology and nothing more.
Wikipedia
Lucifer (/ˈluːsɪfər/;[1][2][3] loo-sif-ər) is the King James Version rendering of the Hebrew word הֵילֵל in Isaiah 14:12. This word, transliterated hêlêl[4] or heylel,[5] occurs only once in the Hebrew Bible[4] and according to the KJV based Strong's Concordance means "shining one, light bearer".[5] The Septuagint renders הֵילֵל in Greek as ἑωσφόρος[6][7][8][9][10] (heōsphoros),[11][12][13] a name, literally "bringer of dawn", for the morning star.[14]
The word Lucifer is taken from the Latin Vulgate,[15] which translates הֵילֵל as lucifer,[16][17] meaning "the morning star, the planet Venus", or, as an adjective, "light-bringing".[18]
Later Christian tradition came to use the Latin word for "morning star", lucifer, as a proper name ("Lucifer") for the devil; as he was before his fall.[19] As a result, "'Lucifer' has become a by-word for Satan/the Devil in the church and in popular literature",[15] as in Dante Alighieri's Inferno and John Milton's Paradise Lost.[13] However, the Latin word never came to be used almost exclusively, as in English, in this way, and was applied to others also, including Jesus.[20] The image of a morning star fallen from the sky is generally believed among scholars to have a parallel in Canaanite mythology.[21]
However, according to both Christian[22] and Jewish exegesis, in the Book of Isaiah, chapter 14, the King of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar II, conqueror of Jerusalem, is condemned in a prophetic vision by the prophet Isaiah and is called the "Morning Ha" (planet Venus).[23][24] In this chapter the Hebrew text says הֵילֵל בֶּן-שָׁחַר (Helel ben Shaḥar, "shining one, son of the morning").[25] "Helel ben Shaḥar" may refer to the Morning Star, but the text in Isaiah 14 gives no indication that Helel was a star or planet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer
I call this angel "Mr. D", maybe I'll use "Big L." too.
Luke 4:6-7", “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. If you worship me, it will all be yours.”
There are a few things that I notice about this quote that puzzles me. First of all, this quote, attributed to Jesus himself, is found in the Gospel According to Luke. Luke says that Jesus said this, but Jesus himself wrote NOTHING, and the author of Luke never met Jesus. Furthermore this quote is attributed to Jesus while he was entirely alone in the desert. SO WHO RECORDED IT?
1) Luke wrote the book of Luke under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit.
2) Luke was one of the 12 Apostles, so whom ever you are getting the idea that the author of Luke never met Jesus is not even close to creditable.
3) Luke does not say anything of the sort that Jesus spoke Luke 4:6-7 ... that was part of the exchange between Jesus and the devil aka Satan.
1) Luke wrote the book of Luke under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit.
2) Luke was one of the 12 Apostles, so whom ever you are getting the idea that the author of Luke never met Jesus is not even close to creditable.
3) Luke does not say anything of the sort that Jesus spoke Luke 4:6-7 ... that was part of the exchange between Jesus and the devil aka Satan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
1) Luke wrote the book of Luke under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit.
In other words it's all true because you say so. That's what this statement amounts to. You know it's true because it's in the Bible, and the Bible says it, so you know it's true. That's fine if you believe it, but "it's in the Bible, I believe it, and that settles it," is not really an argument. That's just you making an unsupported statement. It's a conditioned response to your years of training, and that's all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
2) Luke was one of the 12 Apostles, so whom ever you are getting the idea that the author of Luke never met Jesus is not even close to creditable.
Here are the names of the 12 apostles. Show me a Luke.
Matthew 10:
[2] Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
[3] Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
[4] Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
According to tradition the author of Gospel Luke was a follower of Paul, who also never met the living Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
3) Luke does not say anything of the sort that Jesus spoke Luke 4:6-7 ... that was part of the exchange between Jesus and the devil aka Satan.
Whomever wrote the Gospel According to Luke wrote Luke 4:6-7. That's how it works. And whomever wrote Gospel Luke WAS NOT in the desert with Jesus. So who recorded what Jesus said?
It may be time to begin to give some actual thought about what it is that you think you believe in.
Last edited by Tired of the Nonsense; 02-01-2016 at 11:49 PM..
Andrew
Bartholomew or Nathanael
James, the Elder
James, the Lesser or Younger
John
Judas
Jude or Thaddeus
Matthew or Levi
Peter or Simon Peter
Philip
Simon the Zealot
Thomas
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