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You see that's just a label that they throw. What do you mean a dispensational point of view? The word dispensation is a New Testament word Paul said was committed on him the dispensation of the grace of God, the dispensation of the mysteries. It simply means a stewardship. It simply a term that's all and it is not, I mean this is the accusation over and over again the dispensationalism popped up with Jay N. Darby and C. I. Scofield and all that, but we're not working our way through a system, but rather attempting to interpret Scripture on its own merit.
Okay, you have some basic things to deal with. Dispensationalism, by the way, is simply a title for theology that recognizes a literal nation Israel to be restored in the future and recognizes a literal kingdom and a literal tribulation and a literal return and a literal rapture and that is dispensational. The other perspective is what's called non-dispensational or covenant theology, which has no place for Israel, no kingdom in the future and spiritualizes everything rather than making it literal. Okay?
Now what you have to do is go back to some very basic things. Okay. Dispensation simply means that God manages things in a certain way at a certain time.
Now what it boils down to in dispensational theology is that we believe that when God says something He means it and He means exactly what He said and we don't want to take the liberty to spiritualize it. For example, I heard Edmond Clowny, the President of Westminster Seminary preach on Isaiah 9 and he preached on the government shall be on His shoulder. And his sermon was: Is the Government of Your Life on the Shoulders of Christ? He preached a whole sermon on that. That passage has absolutely nothing to do with the government of my life. That's talking about the government of the world, and it's talking about a millennial kingdom, but if you don't want to have a millennial kingdom then you're stuck with making it a personal thing and you have it over and over again.
Now in the Old Testament repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, the Bible says God has a place for the nation Israel. "I will not forget Jerusalem. With my right hand looses its cunning," etc. etc. God says, "I will never, my word will never return void. It will always accomplish that which I sent it. I will fulfill my covenant to David forever and ever." Right? "I will restore my people," Romans 11, "as God set aside Israel whom he foreknew, God forbid." We take that literally. We say there is a kingdom for Israel. There is a kingdom for Israel. The non-dispensationalist says, "No Israel forfeited its kingdom in the execution of the Messiah.
The church is the new Israel. We are the Israel of God. There's no literal kingdom. Everything is spiritual." And they go back into the Old Testament, take that theology, read it back into the Old Testament and reinterpret all of the Old Testament promises as spiritual promises to the church and eliminate Israel. And so you take John Stott, no less a scholar than John Stott, he's in Switzerland, student stands up in a seminar, "What is the significance of Israel's return to the land today?" and his answer is, "It has absolutely no significance at all." But you see he has to say that for his theology sake even though it's ridiculous because he doesn't know any Hivites, Jebusites, Amorites, Malacites, Moabites, Perizzites, but there's an awful lot of Israelites around.
Why? Why? My grandfather wrote a track called Why You Can't Wipe out the Jew; because God isn't finished with them. And that's all dispensationalism affirms.
If you have a literal kingdom then you're going to have a literal beginning of the kingdom and then you're going to have a literal return, then you're going to work with a literal tribulation and a literal rapture. That's all, and when you get into the tribulation you either believe that the rapture comes at the beginning, the middle or the end. The end is impossible.
I believe the most impossible is the post tribulation rapture. It's impossible because you just removed everybody from the earth, wiped out all the unbelievers, whose left for the kingdom? You got nobody. I mean a mid-tribulation would be better, but I don't think that's right either. Because Jesus is to come when no man thinks He's coming, right? He's to come imminently. We're not looking for signs. We're looking for Christ. The blessed hope is not that the tribulation is coming. The blessed hope is that Jesus is coming. So I mean these people who want to stick around are going to be very disappointed when they all leave in the rapture. But does that help you to kind of see it?
That's what I never, ever understood. If John is our brother and companion in tribulation, and if the Almighty would allow his own son to be tortured and killed, then who are we to get an early dismissal pass and escape tribulation by means of some sort of rapture?
There's two kingdoms, as I see it: the physical nation of Israel (aka- "can a nation be born in a day?" - hell yes!) And the spiritual kingdom of God, which is extant in heaven and coming in the earth. No need for a literal rapture and "second" anything there.
A 3rd world war is most likely, that will be the marker for change-over of epoch, into the manifest sons / body of Christ in the earth era. A thousand years after that, who knows what will happen.
Last edited by Age-enduring; 02-09-2016 at 05:27 AM..
It is good to see someone who can read and understand what the words of the bible actually say. So many choose not to accept the "middle wall of partition" has been removed and a "new man" called the Church, the Body of Christ exist today and will for a time.
Modern day "Israel" is an impostor terrorist state imposed by force on the region
and does not even consist of bloodline Judahites. It is a lie of the Devil to say that
the Zionist entity is the Biblical Israel or the Israel of prophecy. Read about the Khazars.
Cue Revelation 2:9, 3:9.
Modern day "Israel" is an impostor terrorist state imposed by force on the region
and does not even consist of bloodline Judahites. It is a lie of the Devil to say that
the Zionist entity is the Biblical Israel or the Israel of prophecy. Read about the Khazars.
Cue Revelation 2:9, 3:9.
OK. But it is irrelevant to the discussion. God knows who are and are not Israel and when the time comes I just bet He can sort them out for Himself. The point is, we are not being blessed and brought to God through them today as was the case in the previous dispensation, and will be again in the next dispensation.
That's what I never, ever understood. If John is our brother and companion in tribulation, and if the Almighty would allow his own son to be tortured and killed, then who are we to get an early dismissal pass and escape tribulation by means of some sort of rapture?
The tribulation is meant to try the Circumcision believers of Israel. They have to remain faithful to the end. The uncircumcision believers of the nations need no such trial by tribulation since we are under grace. This is why are meet the Lord in the air prior to the tribulation and the Circumcision believers remain firmly on the earth. They will enter into the kingdom on earth when Christ takes out the Antichrist.
OK. But it is irrelevant to the discussion. God knows who are and are not Israel and when the time comes I just bet He can sort them out for Himself. The point is, we are not being blessed and brought to God through them today as was the case in the previous dispensation, and will be again in the next dispensation.
That is correct. Israel was set aside almost 2,000 years ago and grace when to the nations without Israel being the dispenser. But this was a gradual setting aside and not an all of a sudden setting aside.
The tribulation is meant to try the Circumcision believers of Israel. They have to remain faithful to the end. The uncircumcision believers of the nations need no such trial by tribulation since we are under grace. This is why are meet the Lord in the air prior to the tribulation and the Circumcision believers remain firmly on the earth. They will enter into the kingdom on earth when Christ takes out the Antichrist.
We disagree. I am Amillenial and believe the reign of Christ to be going on right now. Tribulation is now, though we see very little of it in the US. No rapture, no second chance.
OK. But it is irrelevant to the discussion. God knows who are and are not Israel and when the time comes I just bet He can sort them out for Himself. The point is, we are not being blessed and brought to God through them today as was the case in the previous dispensation, and will be again in the next dispensation.
"We", whatever that is, was brought to God by the workings of His Spirit and Jesus
Christ, His Son. The ancient Hebrews and Israelites were only special in the regard
that they were the tribe of people on whom God chose to incarnate our Savior.
There were truths in other religions and tribes of men, not just the Hebrews, yet
they were appointed for a special reason. Where those tribes spread out in antiquity
and all time since is a matter for anthropologists and historians. There is much which
can be learnt of that, yet it is not of saving essence, it is still required reading for
anyone who believes the fallacy that "Jews" of today are "more special" than anyone else.
"Dispensations" are made too much of by some Protestant sects. For example,
some believe the Seven Churches in the Apocalypse represent a linear succession
of "Church Ages", and we are in the last one. Your final statement is not Biblical,
nor Christian. No Christian will ever be "brought to God" by a Jew again. They are
going to honor the Antichrist and all but a remnant are likely to be damned.
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