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Old 06-08-2016, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
10,532 posts, read 6,167,855 times
Reputation: 6570

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
In a sense. Romans 1 tells us that God's attributes have always been evident to man. Therefore, he/she is without excuse. When Abraham, like any other person who lived before Christ, demonstrated faith in the revelation God gave him, God exchanged that faith for righteousness—a right standing with God—until the bill for that righteousness was paid by Jesus Christ.
So why can't you just have 'faith' today?
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Old 06-08-2016, 11:25 AM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,195,902 times
Reputation: 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
Haven't heard from Vizio yet on this very tricky question...

Vizio, I ask again, did all the people that lived before Jesus existed go to hell?

If not, what is your explanation?

I'll be back later to read your answer. Thanks.
Faithful Jews that believed the promise of Abraham were saved by faith in God to fulfill that promise he gave of the Messiah. They looked forward to the Messiah. Just like we now look back to the Messiah.
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Old 06-08-2016, 11:25 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,495,513 times
Reputation: 1319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Jesus didn't come until 2000 years ago. How were people before then supposed to "have Jesus in their heart" and be saved? I'm curious.
Based on what ... that Jesus was a liar or the Jews are dunces that they didn't comprehend correctly what he was implying in this exchange?

Jesus:
"Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.

Jews:
You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

Jesus:
Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
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Old 06-08-2016, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
10,532 posts, read 6,167,855 times
Reputation: 6570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Faithful Jews that believed the promise of Abraham were saved by faith in God to fulfill that promise he gave of the Messiah. They looked forward to the Messiah. Just like we now look back to the Messiah.
So people who knew about Jesus and all his teachings before Jesus existed didn't go to hell?
Is that what you are saying?
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Old 06-08-2016, 11:33 AM
 
Location: USA
18,498 posts, read 9,164,949 times
Reputation: 8528
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Based on what ... that Jesus was a liar or the Jews are dunces that they didn't comprehend correctly what he was implying in this exchange?

Jesus:
"Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.

Jews:
You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

Jesus:
Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
Quite a few Jewish folks are "dunces" otherwise they would have converted to Christianity, right?

Christianity is mainly a gentle religion. Only a minority of Jews went along with the Christian movement when it started.
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Old 06-08-2016, 11:36 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,495,513 times
Reputation: 1319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
twin.spin, rather than asking me questions in response to the question I asked, couldn't you just for clarity answer the actual question yourself?.

In answer to your question, no I don't acknowledge the premise that Jesus is more than just a mere man and he has always existed but not in the limited form that he took on during those 33 yrs.

I think he was just a man.
But what I think isn't the issue here.

I'm trying to get an explanation from Vizio what he thinks happened to all the people that existed before Jesus did.
Sure I will clarify it.
  • Jesus said Abraham seen him (Jesus). In fact Jesus said he was even around before Abraham was born.
  • Jesus said the he was "I am"
Why would Jesus lie if knowing the Jews were to ask:
You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
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Old 06-08-2016, 11:40 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,495,513 times
Reputation: 1319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Quite a few Jewish folks are "dunces" otherwise they would have converted to Christianity, right?

Christianity is mainly a gentle religion. Only a minority of Jews went along with the Christian movement when it started.
and you think your rejection of Jesus' "Very truly I tell you" will result in anything different than the Jews who reject hearing it straight from the lips of Jesus himself?
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Old 06-08-2016, 12:01 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,195,902 times
Reputation: 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
So people who knew about Jesus and all his teachings before Jesus existed didn't go to hell?
Is that what you are saying?
People that knew God was going to send a Messiah and that trusted in God to fulfill the promise to Abraham did not go to hell.
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Old 06-08-2016, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
10,532 posts, read 6,167,855 times
Reputation: 6570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
People that knew God was going to send a Messiah and that trusted in God to fulfill the promise to Abraham did not go to hell.
So conveniently, people who knew in advance that Jesus was coming, and people who knew about him afterwards all go to heaven, the rest go to hell.

You don't think that's really convenient?

In Jesus time there were about 300 million people on earth. You think all 300 million people would have had this knowledge?


Honestly, I'm done with this, sorry. It's a waste of time.
It's a crazy conversation to start with and just gets ever more absurd.
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Old 06-08-2016, 12:11 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,088 posts, read 29,227,920 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
People that knew God was going to send a Messiah and that trusted in God to fulfill the promise to Abraham did not go to hell.
Even though they died prior to the fulfillment? The criteria is constantly changing to accommodate the cultist believe in exclusivity...
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