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Itt is hard sometimes when nature isn't just and society itself isn't just, and we instinctively long for some invisible retribution to clobber someone we feel did the dirty to us, and seems to have got away with it.
The hell -concept may be convenient, but I see no reason to suppose that nature would have made any such thing to mete out superhuman justice to offenders against human morality.
And when we get to the religious hell, the concept becomes truly ridiculous. The parameters there is not about good or bad deeds, but about what particular religion we believed. In the face of such absurdity, sermons about someone sacrificing himself to himself in order to secure a release for people whose only crime was sitting in the wrong chairs seems only to add to the absurdity.
So who do you think gave us this instinct? Who gave us a sense ofright and wrong, and the will to set up court systems that judge andpunish people according to those standards? Evolution kicked in a standard of morality when exactlty? After we changed from apes to humans? I don't see any monkeys setting up court systems, yet even the most primitive tribes create some kind of system of justice according to their own morality.
The point for judgment is not what religion we believed in, but is the fine for our crimes paid or are we held guilty according to Gods Holy Law? Doesn't matter if you're a Hindu, Muslim, a (professed)Christian or Buddhist, we are all criminals in Gods eyes and we all need to face God on Judgment Day. You need someone to pay the fine for you so the Judge can legally let you go free even though you're unable to pay it yourself.
And remember, humans are not the standard for morality, the God that created the humans is the standard for morality. When we judge according to what we think is right or wrong, we tend to favour ourselves and not think our crimes are so bad compared to other humans. But when we see ourselves in the light of Gods Holy Law, that changes our perception completely and our conscience agrees with it and accuses us. Conscience means with knowledge (con = with, science= knowledge), and when we sin and violate Gods Law, we do so with knowledge which makes us inexcusable.
And we cannot make up for past sins we have all committed. All our own good works are nothing but an attempt to bribe the judge in letting us go, but if a judge is Righteous he won't be bribed into letting us go free. Imagine a criminal in court telling the judge 'Okay I admit I raped that woman and killed her, but I am really sorry, and I did do alot of good things aswell.. I won't do it again I promise'. Will the judge let him go because of his confession? Not if he's a Righteous Judge, he will say 'yes what you did was horrible and yes you should be sorry, and here is the sentence you deserve according to the Law' a Righteous Judge will see to it that justice will be served for the crime committed. Our regret or good works cannot erase past sins, therefore the Judge cannot let us go on the basis of that.
Now if the fine we are to be sentenced for is a fine that is let's say 2 million dollars, we have to go to prison either until we die or until we have sat out our sentence equal to the debt we owe. But this is where the finite and the infinite vastly differ, we have sinned against an infinitely Holy God, and so our punishment Righteously will be infinite aswell. We won't ever be able to pay off even one of our sins, because we didn't solely commit them against another human being, we committed sin against the God that created us and gave us life and food and family. What seems small in our eyes is not so small in light of Gods Holiness.
And the only way our debt can be paid off, our case can legally be dismissed, is if someone stepped in that was actually able to pay the price for our freedom. No human being is able to do so though, because we all have sinned ourselves, we can't even pay for our own crimes let alone those of others. But my friend the only One able to pay the eternal price for sin committed against an infinitely Holy God, is the infinitely Holy Son of God, Jesus Christ. He committed no sin whatsoever, and pleased God in all that He did. That is why salvation is by grace, we can't earn our favour with God – like I said that would be trying to bribe the Judge – but Jesus Christ earned favour with God, He kept His commandments perfectly and God raised Him from the dead because He satisfied the wrath of God over our sin, and took away the punishment (eternal death) that we deserved.
If we were on an airplane and I would tell you this airplane is going to crash, we are losing altitude quicly and destined to crash soon - and you need a parachute in order to survive the jump that is coming, would you put it on? Well I am warning you that we are all heading for that crash, and we need to put on the Lord Jesus Christ to survive the Judgment that will come. Just believing the parachute exists won't be enough, we need to put it on if we want to survive. Doesn't matter if we have a comfortable flight, the flight won't be more comfortable with a parachute on yourback.. and other passengers will mock you for having one on, but who cares about the flight when you know you're gonna crash! The reason you put the parachute on is to survive the crash that is coming and stay alive. Just like that, let nothing in this fleeting life hinder you from going to the Lord Jesus Christ, not for a more comfortable life, but to flee the wrath of Gods Judgment that is to come.
So who do you think gave us this instinct? Who gave us a sense ofright and wrong, and the will to set up court systems that judge andpunish people according to those standards? Evolution kicked in a standard of morality when exactlty? After we changed from apes to humans? I don't see any monkeys setting up court systems, yet even the most primitive tribes create some kind of system of justice according to their own morality.
The point for judgment is not what religion we believed in, but is the fine for our crimes paid or are we held guilty according to Gods Holy Law? Doesn't matter if you're a Hindu, Muslim, a (professed)Christian or Buddhist, we are all criminals in Gods eyes and we all need to face God on Judgment Day. You need someone to pay the fine for you so the Judge can legally let you go free even though you're unable to pay it yourself.
And remember, humans are not the standard for morality, the God that created the humans is the standard for morality. When we judge according to what we think is right or wrong, we tend to favour ourselves and not think our crimes are so bad compared to other humans. But when we see ourselves in the light of Gods Holy Law, that changes our perception completely and our conscience agrees with it and accuses us. Conscience means with knowledge (con = with, science= knowledge), and when we sin and violate Gods Law, we do so with knowledge which makes us inexcusable.
And we cannot make up for past sins we have all committed. All our own good works are nothing but an attempt to bribe the judge in letting us go, but if a judge is Righteous he won't be bribed into letting us go free. Imagine a criminal in court telling the judge 'Okay I admit I raped that woman and killed her, but I am really sorry, and I did do alot of good things aswell.. I won't do it again I promise'. Will the judge let him go because of his confession? Not if he's a Righteous Judge, he will say 'yes what you did was horrible and yes you should be sorry, and here is the sentence you deserve according to the Law' a Righteous Judge will see to it that justice will be served for the crime committed. Our regret or good works cannot erase past sins, therefore the Judge cannot let us go on the basis of that.
Now if the fine we are to be sentenced for is a fine that is let's say 2 million dollars, we have to go to prison either until we die or until we have sat out our sentence equal to the debt we owe. But this is where the finite and the infinite vastly differ, we have sinned against an infinitely Holy God, and so our punishment Righteously will be infinite aswell. We won't ever be able to pay off even one of our sins, because we didn't solely commit them against another human being, we committed sin against the God that created us and gave us life and food and family. What seems small in our eyes is not so small in light of Gods Holiness.
And the only way our debt can be paid off, our case can legally be dismissed, is if someone stepped in that was actually able to pay the price for our freedom. No human being is able to do so though, because we all have sinned ourselves, we can't even pay for our own crimes let alone those of others. But my friend the only One able to pay the eternal price for sin committed against an infinitely Holy God, is the infinitely Holy Son of God, Jesus Christ. He committed no sin whatsoever, and pleased God in all that He did. That is why salvation is by grace, we can't earn our favour with God – like I said that would be trying to bribe the Judge – but Jesus Christ earned favour with God, He kept His commandments perfectly and God raised Him from the dead because He satisfied the wrath of God over our sin, and took away the punishment (eternal death) that we deserved.
If we were on an airplane and I would tell you this airplane is going to crash, we are losing altitude quicly and destined to crash soon - and you need a parachute in order to survive the jump that is coming, would you put it on? Well I am warning you that we are all heading for that crash, and we need to put on the Lord Jesus Christ to survive the Judgment that will come. Just believing the parachute exists won't be enough, we need to put it on if we want to survive. Doesn't matter if we have a comfortable flight, the flight won't be more comfortable with a parachute on yourback.. and other passengers will mock you for having one on, but who cares about the flight when you know you're gonna crash! The reason you put the parachute on is to survive the crash that is coming and stay alive. Just like that, let nothing in this fleeting life hinder you from going to the Lord Jesus Christ, not for a more comfortable life, but to flee the wrath of Gods Judgment that is to come.
Except, as an evangelical that proselytizing is hypocritical
Because as an evangelical, you MUST also believe that FEW will follow the narrow road--so in your zeal to "save" everyone, you have already accepted the fact that there just are not enough parachutes for everyone so the majority will die regardless of your hypocritically valiant efforts..
you surely know that those you describe are repeatedly spoken about in Scripture; not saying he is one, but yes i would take proselytizing to be a clue myself.
But I think you might be able to peel off a layer of dislike or two every now and then -- maybe when you do a good deed, or wake up and realize you didn't do anything terrible yesterday and don't plan on anything along those lines today either.
Snick! Off goes a layer of loathing!
And maybe you find a quarter on the street, or in a shirt pocket and add it to the tip of your usual dime for that nice waitress at the diner and her smile lights up your whole day.
Shazaam!
You bask in that smile and decide that maybe you're semi-tolerable with gusts up to nearly-ok.
Before you know it, you can open your eyes while shaving and not gag.
Next thing you know there's a twinkle in your eye and you're working on some way to ask that nice waitress out to a movie.
Now see, That's why Trout turns me on, I am such a fool for him lol.
Next life, me and him gonna be two old miners of gold like the odd couple, spend our lives away from people, get rich and then take over the world. Of course we all know which one Trout will be out of the odd couple.
Now see, That's why Trout turns me on, I am such a fool for him lol.
Next life, me and him gonna be two old miners of gold like the odd couple, spend our lives away from people, get rich and then take over the world. Of course we all know which one Trout will be out of the odd couple.
Good tune by E'vis. And a new one on me. Surprised I hadn't heard it before.
Sorry Hanni, but we'd be a pair of Oscars. Maybe we could get by without a cook but for sure we'd have to hire someone to clean and tidy the place now and again.
Now see, That's why Trout turns me on, I am such a fool for him lol.
Next life, me and him gonna be two old miners of gold like the odd couple, spend our lives away from people, get rich and then take over the world. Of course we all know which one Trout will be out of the odd couple.
Please forgive me, I’m new to the Christianity sub-forum of Religion and Spirituality, and I have some questions.
Reading through many of the threads, I’ve made the following observations:
1. Most of the threads are not about Christ or the works of Christ
2. More than a few threads seem to have a theme of challenging Christianity
3. Many threads are populated by guests who seem to have little interest in promoting Christianity
4. Some guests of this sub-forum are self-professed former Christians
5. Some threads seem to turn into debates arguing the validity of Christianity no matter the original intent
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton
Welcome Corvette -- You are discovering what many of us have known about the CD Christianity Forum for some time. It has largely turned into a haunt for atheists and a place where Christ, Christian and Bible-bashers can vent their hatred. (There is still a solid core of Christians here, but many have dropped-off for these reasons).
As a last resort, there is an "Ignore" function on CD that allows one to simply bypass the posts of those who are only here to throw rocks - and add no substantive discussion. It makes the forum much more palatable and easier to narrow-down the posts to serious Christians, without wasting time reading and re-reading the same chaff from some posters.
I agree with jghorton. Many come here only to vent their anti-Christian anger/hatred and it has driven out most people who used to come here to discuss their faith.
well come on, those people did not come from nowhere. Like 65 million people have left the est'd christian church in the US; they don't all deny God. It is a reaction against religion, and not faith. God does not care if you call yourself an atheist, if you then go and manifest Christ to people, you are going to be accepted. We have parables for this.
I agree with jghorton. Many come here only to vent their anti-Christian anger/hatred and it has driven out most people who used to come here to discuss their faith.
No we are here to share the way we know and experience Jesus Christ, and predictably it rattles you fundies
Please forgive me, I’m new to the Christianity sub-forum of Religion and Spirituality, and I have some questions.
Reading through many of the threads, I’ve made the following observations:
1. Most of the threads are not about Christ or the works of Christ
2. More than a few threads seem to have a theme of challenging Christianity
3. Many threads are populated by guests who seem to have little interest in promoting Christianity
4. Some guests of this sub-forum are self-professed former Christians
5. Some threads seem to turn into debates arguing the validity of Christianity no matter the original intent
With these in mind, here are my questions:
1. Why do you visit the Christianity sub-forum? I go to Automotive to talk about cars. I go to San Diego to talk about San Diego. If you don’t go to Christianity to talk about Christ, can you tell me what you do come to discuss?
2. Why do you think the percentage of threads started in the Christianity sub-forum to discuss the merits of Christianity seem to be so slender?
3. To what do you attribute the diversity of the visitors of the Christianity sub-forum vs other topic-specific forums?
4. What motivates former Christians to contribute to this forum? What is your/their intent and message?
5. Who are the debaters trying to convince, their opponents, or other readers of the threads on this forum?
Thank you ...
Corvette Ministries
VERY good post! There are many people on here who spend their day just looking for reasons to slam Christianity- their entire being is wrapped up in this perverse desire. They would take great offense at a Christian posting on aetheist or non believers topics, but can hardly control themselves when it comes to the opportunity to slam Christians. As always, Jesus was right in telling us about them. He is in charge, and their nasty posts in the long run are completely irrelevant.
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