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Rbbi1. I'll continue to ask this question until I get an answer from you. Do you believe that 'speaking in tongues' is an indication of one's being 'Spirit-filled' WITHOUT WHICH one is 'lost'?
Perhaps you're reluctant to answer that question with a "Yes, the speaking in tongues IS an indication of one's being 'Spirit-filled' and being so filled IS a requirement for salvation,'' as doing so would expose you in a rather bad light. If, on the other hand, your answer is, "No, an infilling of the Holy Spirit is NOT necessary for salvation," I would then have to ask, why then is it necessary AT ALL to have an infilling of the Holy Spirit and 'speak in tongues' if no actual purpose is served other than giving one 'bragging rights'?
One more time for the reader: Many Pentecostals believe ...
"the Word shows us that every believer needs to be filled with the Holy Ghost. And the Word says that when we get filled with the Holy Ghost, we WILL 'speak with tongues'."
So, in other words, those who do not 'speak in tongues' are not believers. And, according to this belief, non-believers are 'lost'. Rbbi1 persistently accuses those who question or deny 'tongue speaking' as not understanding because they don't have an infilling of the Holy Spirit. And, by definition, the implication is that they are, therefore ...lost.
Rbbi1. I'll continue to ask this question until I get an answer from you. Do you believe that 'speaking in tongues' is an indication of one's being 'Spirit-filled' WITHOUT WHICH one is 'lost'?
Perhaps you're reluctant to answer that question with a "Yes, the speaking in tongues IS an indication of one's being 'Spirit-filled' and being so filled IS a requirement for salvation,'' as doing so would expose you in a rather bad light. If, on the other hand, your answer is, "No, an infilling of the Holy Spirit is NOT necessary for salvation," I would then have to ask, why then is it necessary AT ALL to have an infilling of the Holy Spirit and 'speak in tongues' if no actual purpose is served other than giving one 'bragging rights'?
One more time for the reader: Many Pentecostals believe ...
"the Word shows us that every believer needs to be filled with the Holy Ghost. And the Word says that when we get filled with the Holy Ghost, we WILL 'speak with tongues'."
So, in other words, those who do not 'speak in tongues' are not believers. And, according to this belief, non-believers are 'lost'. Rbbi1 persistently accuses those who question or deny 'tongue speaking' as not understanding because they don't have an infilling of the Holy Spirit. And, by definition, the implication is that they are, therefore ...lost.
When salvation is built upon being saved from hell, it is the first step on to the broad way of destruction. The broad way of "unless you do this that and the other and believe what i believe about the bible" , you are not saved. Rbbi is someone who could not settle for the shallow end of bible fundamentalism, but rightly looking for something more real, instead of looking for something out of bible fundamentalism, settled for the deeper end of bible fundamentalism. I know, there was a time i walked the same way(Not the 32 years Rbbi has been immersed in it).
The apostle Paul spoke for Christ, which is all the same as speaking for God seeing as how Christ himself spoke for God..
● 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of The Lord.
● 1Ths 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
Seeing as that's the case, then if you are truly sincere about preferring to do what God says, the way He says; then the smart thing for you to do is comply with the apostle Paul's instructions governing the use and abuse of the gift of tongues.
Many people who DO claim to have 'experienced it' come out later to confess that it was all a sham. What YOU claim about 'tongue-speaking' is nothing more than your own unverifiable word and you expect everyone else to believe it. And, if they don't believe it then you throw the "that's because you don't have an infilling of the Holy Spirit" at them. Why "I" don't believe any of this is because 1. it's nonsensical to pass off 'babble' as being some form of 'angelic speech', and, 2. this silly Pentecostal practice is not scriptural any more than is voodoo or LSD-induced babble. Paul was simply using HYPERBOLE when he referenced 'the tongues of angels'! That you're using Paul's frustrated attempts to bring a rabble in the church under control simply to glorify yourself is quite telling, Rbbi1. Moreover ...you also ridicule those who DO know the context of Paul's exaggerated speech and call THEM ignorant! I wonder how long will it be before YOU come out and tell us that it was all a sham?
I'm not 'back' to anything. I remain at the position I started. As you are. So, let me ask you this ...do you believe that 'speaking in tongues' is an indication of one's being 'Spirit-filled' WITHOUT WHICH one is 'lost'? You see, dear reader, people like Jimmy Swaggart and MANY other Pentecostals believe that ONLY 'tongue-speakers' are 'saved' because it's THEY who have received the Holy Spirit. All those who have NOT received the Holy Spirit, i.e. those that don't 'speak in tongues', are destined for (ahem) hell. That is how RIDICULOUS this whole 'tongue-speaking' phenomenon has become . . .!
AND, all of this came about because Paul chose to use an exaggerated term, "the tongues of angels", in his speech to try to calm an unruly congregation in the Church of Corinth! That term is found NOWHERE ELSE in the entire Bible because it's simply HYPERBOLE used ONE TIME in 1 Corinthians!
So because some never had it and claimed it, that means EVERYONE'S is a sham? Hardly. My word is verifiable, because it's all through the Word, not just in Corinthians like you want everyone to believe, which I already proved. You'll have a long wait, because I will NEVER betray the Holy Ghost.
I don't care what Swaggart or any Pentecostals believe. I already answered your question in another post, about it's relationship to salvation. I guess I'll have to refresh your memory...Peace
So because some never had it and claimed it, that means EVERYONE'S is a sham? Hardly. My word is verifiable, because it's all through the Word, not just in Corinthians like you want everyone to believe, which I already proved. You'll have a long wait, because I will NEVER betray the Holy Ghost.
I don't care what Swaggart or any Pentecostals believe. I already answered your question in another post, about it's relationship to salvation. I guess I'll have to refresh your memory...Peace
@ Romulus....here ya go, note the comment in bold....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
Subterfuge? Lol, I quoted scriptures that PLAINLY refute what you're saying, nothing more, nothing less, and yes the scriptures quoted pertaining to power also CLEARLY state what that power was/is and when it came/comes. Lie to yourself if you want to, but quit trying to lie to others. And the ONLY reason you want me to SOLELY focus on Corinthians is because it gives you less scriptures to twist and refute, and enables you to ignore all the other chapters that mention it. And as usual, when you don't have a leg to stand on, it's always good to attack the poster or the others you think are of the poster's denomination. Too bad for you, I'm NOT a Pentecostal or charismatic; I'm just a believer who believed what was written and received it by faith, the same way you receive any free gift from the Father.
Why do I need to know what the Spirit is saying? Your problem is you don't know or trust the Spirit. Why don't you ask Him since He said we build up our MOST HOLY FAITH by praying in the Holy Ghost. WHO ARE YOU, to tell HIM how to do ANYTHING, by the way?
As for being slain in the Spirit; I'll assume you have never been. So; what makes you an expert on it, exactly? I seem to recall that when the guards came after Jesus in the garden, they all fell backwards when He spoke. Hmm. I have been dozens of times. I've also been used of the HG for others to be slain. What it IS, is no enemy can stand in the PRESENCE of the Lord, and the carnal mind is His enemy, and so you feel the Spirit come at your forehead, and down you go, light as a feather, usually unaware you even hit the floor, filled with peace and joy indescribable.
AND NO, SINCE SALVATION IS A PROCESS, NOT A ONE TIME EVENT, IT'S NOT NECESSARY FOR THE INTIAL SALVATION ACTION OF THE SPIRIT. But quenching the Spirit is NEVER a good idea, nor is stagnating, nor is stunting your spiritual growth, all of which you do by refusing the free gift of the baptism of the Holy Ghost as evidenced by speaking in tongues, because the Holy Ghost is who does the work of sanctification in the heart/cleaning the inside of the cup.
And no, it's NOT rather odd, as those other denominations teach against it, out of ignorance, stubbornness, and/or fear, usually. People will say they know G-d is a Spirit and they worship a Spirit, but G-d forbid if He should actually show up and manifest Himself in any way. Fear, nothing but fear ruling.
To the readers who I assume CAN read, it should be obvious by all the scriptures that I quoted, that it's not only NOT a recent event, but one that was ordained of G-d FROM THE BEGINNING on the day of Pentecost, and there was not one covenant for them and one for us, it's ALL ONE COVENANT continued over time. Peace
Rbbi1. I'll continue to ask this question until I get an answer from you. Do you believe that 'speaking in tongues' is an indication of one's being 'Spirit-filled' WITHOUT WHICH one is 'lost'?
Perhaps you're reluctant to answer that question with a "Yes, the speaking in tongues IS an indication of one's being 'Spirit-filled' and being so filled IS a requirement for salvation,'' as doing so would expose you in a rather bad light. If, on the other hand, your answer is, "No, an infilling of the Holy Spirit is NOT necessary for salvation," I would then have to ask, why then is it necessary AT ALL to have an infilling of the Holy Spirit and 'speak in tongues' if no actual purpose is served other than giving one 'bragging rights'?
One more time for the reader: Many Pentecostals believe ...
"the Word shows us that every believer needs to be filled with the Holy Ghost. And the Word says that when we get filled with the Holy Ghost, we WILL 'speak with tongues'."
So, in other words, those who do not 'speak in tongues' are not believers. And, according to this belief, non-believers are 'lost'. Rbbi1 persistently accuses those who question or deny 'tongue speaking' as not understanding because they don't have an infilling of the Holy Spirit. And, by definition, the implication is that they are, therefore ...lost.
You testify of what exactly?
I have not heard one compliment from you?
Have you forgotten what your mother taught you?
The apostle Paul spoke for Christ, which is all the same as speaking for God seeing as how Christ himself spoke for God..
● 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of The Lord.
● 1Ths 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
Seeing as that's the case, then if you are truly sincere about preferring to do what God says, the way He says; then the smart thing for you to do is comply with the apostle Paul's instructions governing the use and abuse of the gift of tongues.
/
I have no problem with the validity of the scriptures. I DO comply with it. What I take exception to is your errors in understanding that portion of them due to a lack of personal experience and probably erroneous teachings by others with a lack of experience, and THAT is what I refuse to comply with. Peace
Rbbi1. I'll continue to ask this question until I get an answer from you. Do you believe that 'speaking in tongues' is an indication of one's being 'Spirit-filled' WITHOUT WHICH one is 'lost'?
Perhaps you're reluctant to answer that question with a "Yes, the speaking in tongues IS an indication of one's being 'Spirit-filled' and being so filled IS a requirement for salvation,'' as doing so would expose you in a rather bad light. If, on the other hand, your answer is, "No, an infilling of the Holy Spirit is NOT necessary for salvation," I would then have to ask, why then is it necessary AT ALL to have an infilling of the Holy Spirit and 'speak in tongues' if no actual purpose is served other than giving one 'bragging rights'?
One more time for the reader: Many Pentecostals believe ...
"the Word shows us that every believer needs to be filled with the Holy Ghost. And the Word says that when we get filled with the Holy Ghost, we WILL 'speak with tongues'."
So, in other words, those who do not 'speak in tongues' are not believers. And, according to this belief, non-believers are 'lost'. Rbbi1 persistently accuses those who question or deny 'tongue speaking' as not understanding because they don't have an infilling of the Holy Spirit. And, by definition, the implication is that they are, therefore ...lost.
As I pointed out in the bolded statement in the post I reposted below, I ALREADY did answer your question, about 3 pages back. Are you paying attention? Apparently not. Again, I DON'T CARE what "most" Pentecostals believe, because I'm NOT ONE OF THEM. You think because I have the gifts that means I got their foundation as well. Well, I DIDN'T. In actuality, most of them I've encountered, think I'm a heretic because I don't believe in a literal rapture, among other things. Which is why I've found it humorous that I get called a "fundamentalist" on here, because a lot of "fundamentalists" would disown me from the "club" for that reason alone.
Why don't you ask G-d why it's necessary to have it, since He's the one who instituted it? But barring that happening, I'll tell you just off the top of my head, that:
1) it's necessary to hear Him, as G-d, through His Spirit, plants the hearing ear
2) it's the Spirit of Truth that was promised that is to lead us into all truth
3) it's the baptism of being conformed into the image of His life as opposed to the likeness of His death
4) it's begins the sanctification process (cleansing the inside of the cup) of soul
5) it empowers the believer to stand on the word in faith
6) it opens up communication between your spirit and Him, and between Him and His body at large
7) it's the earnest (means down payment) of our inheritance
8) it's literally receiving a portion of the 5 fold, which IS Christ's works divided in His body
9) it was ordained by G-d (most important reason, I might add)
10) it strengthens the body (including you) through the manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit which are given via it. The gifts in operation can literally save someone's life, which means it's not about "bragging rights", it's about SERVICE to the body.
11) praying in it builds up YOUR most holy faith
and...
12) EVERYONE in the NT received it after they believed, and there is not one covenant for 1st century believers and one for us. There is ONE covenant, sanctified by His blood, which is SPIRIT. This is the anointing that separates us for His service, just as all the articles in the Tabernacle were anointed for holy service.
When salvation is built upon being saved from hell, it is the first step on to the broad way of destruction. The broad way of "unless you do this that and the other and believe what i believe about the bible" , you are not saved. Rbbi is someone who could not settle for the shallow end of bible fundamentalism, but rightly looking for something more real, instead of looking for something out of bible fundamentalism, settled for the deeper end of bible fundamentalism. I know, there was a time i walked the same way(Not the 32 years Rbbi has been immersed in it).
No, Rbbi is someone who believed the word of G-d over men, applied it, found it to be true, and pressed into the Spirit for wisdom and understanding of that same word, AS TAUGHT BY THE SPIRIT. My first prayer that continues today, was and always has been, "I don't care what You teach me as long as I know it's your Truth." That means I didn't/don't care if His truth runs afoul of Baptist, Pentecostal, Charismatic, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Catholic, Quaker, ect., versions, I have NO ALLEGIANCE to any pile of denominational bricks they've built for themselves to dwell in.
When He said pick up your cross and follow Me, most people seem to forget that He's IN THE SPIRIT NOW. And applying the cross (read law here) kills the flesh so that you CAN follow Him into the things of the Spirit. In the beginning of my walk, it was the word that defined the Spirit, but as I aged in Him, it was the Spirit that defined the word. Note that both are necessary. Peace
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Re: Rules Governing The Gift Of Tongues
