Was Jesus created by God? (Revelation, scriptures, Matthew, Creator)

[The Last Amalekite 1Sam15]

Originally Posted by Mike555

While as a man Jesus had a beginning, as God He has eternally existed.

So jesus helped in deciding to drown everything instead of making a human appearance to fix things. .

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15

So jesus helped in deciding to drown everything instead of making a human appearance to fix things. .

The flood story in Genesis uses exaggerated language for theological purposes in relating what was actually a local flood. . . probably the Black Sea Flood which while massive was still local. That flood is probably the basis for all of the ANE flood stories. The Genesis flood story is most likely a polemic against the other ANE flood stories. But this is off topic.

[The Last Amalekite 1Sam15]

Originally Posted by Mike555

The flood story in Genesis uses exaggerated language for theological purposes in relating what was actually a local flood. . . probably the Black Sea Flood which while massive was still local. That flood is probably the basis for all of the ANE flood stories. The Genesis flood story is most likely a polemic against the other ANE flood stories. But this is off topic.

Didn’t god know all this when it was inspiring the writings of its rule book?

[nateswift]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

Did He ask her permission or just do it?...

Well, according to the book He tells her what is about to happen and she says something like, "Cool."

[TroutDude]

I still maintain Christianity's biggest mistake was force-fitting the Jesus story into their adulterated version of the Tanakh. It just became too convoluted and silly: a god impregnates a woman to give birth to himself so he can sorta die 33 years later to atone for his own screwups when creating mankind.


It's a LOT to swallow. I had to spit it out in my teens.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by Vf6cruiser

Easy one, scholars weigh in..........

How Jesus is the Maker, but not God, rather a helper.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
OK we have a plurality here with the term "our". Fine how can we see an example of how this was done.

Easy.

1. Adam existed alone. God existed alone.
2. Adam was created by God alone as the singular "him" is used.
3. Eve came from Adam. Jesus came from God
4. ALL other human life came from Adam through Eve. ALL other creation came from God and through Jesus.

The "He" created them, shows who the creator is and it can only be one of the two as it is singular, thus God. Next we are told "man" (mankind male and female) was "made" in ... their image, thus someone else involved beyond Adam's creation. Now we are talking about both ("them"). The image would then include the difference between God, (not just sentience, etc.,) and the other individual who was one of the "them". A pattern for us to learn from.

That is why Jesus is the firstborn as Adam was the first human created by God.
KJV John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

NAS John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

That is why we are told:
KJV 1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

ASV 1 Corinthians 8:6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.




This is why Col is to be understood as the Firstborn of all creation. He was as all other Creation came after him and through him.

KJV Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

He is the "image" just as man was created in God's image, but is not God. He is the firstborn "of" (genitive so belonging to the group) like Adam was thr firstborn human son.

The Bible makes it clear.

Prov 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: 30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

ASV Proverbs 8:30 Then I was by him, as a master workman; And I was daily his delight, Rejoicing always before him,

Clearly a person not just wisdom as a part of God, but a separate individual that came into existent at a point in time (God was never without wisdom he he would not be ... God" and was by Him, helping Him as a ... "master workman".

The reality of two beings is found all through scripture with Jesus coming before God, sitting at His right hand, being subject to him, etc.

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by nateswift

Well, according to the book He tells her what is about to happen and she says something like, "Cool."

Uh huh, sure she did...

[nateswift]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

Uh huh, sure she did...

Well, the story goes like this: 35The angel replied, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the Holy One to be bornb will be called the Son of God. 36Look, even Elizabeth your relative has conceived a son in her old age, and she who was called barren is in her sixth month. 37For nothing will be impossible with God.”

38“I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May it happen to me according to your word.” Then the angel left her." Luke 1 Berean Study Bible.

That's the story.

[golgi1]

While the OP's question risks a long mess of a theological debate, the easiest answer to his precise question would be: no, Christ was not created.

That is, he is not a creature of god. Which, after thought, should be obvious to Christians who believe him to be God. By definition, a creature (object of creation) cannot be God.

Christ was not created as a reflection of God, as Adam was. Adam was a creature of God's creation. Instead, Christ is God's literal son.

[golgi1]

Originally Posted by TroutDude

I still maintain Christianity's biggest mistake was force-fitting the Jesus story into their adulterated version of the Tanakh. It just became too convoluted and silly: a god impregnates a woman to give birth to himself so he can sorta die 33 years later to atone for his own screwups when creating mankind.

It's not an "adulterated version of the Tanakh". Its a completely new book.

It's a LOT to swallow. I had to spit it out in my teens.

I admit that its esoteric. But so is all religion and myth. The issue for most people, like yourself, is that you are unclear in regard to the meaning. I understand.