Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The reason I asked is that it happened in the town that I grew up and later returned to raise my daughter in. The town was traditionally overwhelmingly Christian, mostly RCA and CRC because of the high number of residents of Dutch descent, but also Catholic and a few other Protestant denoms, but even when I was a kid there were a couple of Jewish families.
Nobody prayed at school events that I can recall when I was a kid, but they may have and I just thought nothing of it at the time.
However, fast forward to now, I know there wouldn't have been any prayers before music events because the both-excellent band and choral directors were Jewish, even though the majority of students are not. However, the mother of one of my daughter's classmates moved to another town, and she told me she was moving because there were prayers at certain student events and other occasions "in Jesus name", and she'd asked them to please be more respectful of non-Christians and she was laughed at and dismissed.
Then, I found to my shock that the town council was opening their sessions with Christian prayer! It came to light because people attending the council meetings protested against the practice. The council used the same old same old excuse, that the majority of residents were Christian, it had always been known as a "town of churches" (there are a lot of them), but still, it is just plain wrong to do that.
(Any prayers that may have been said for the football team apparently were not answered, as there is no longer a HS football team in town. They were too small and could not compete. Kids who want to play football can play with a neighboring town's school.)
I moved from that town nearly ten years ago after my daughter graduated from high school. I don't know if they are still doing the prayer thing, but I do know that one of the churches that had closed was sold to a Muslim congregation as a prayer center, and there was some horror and gnashing of teeth over that.
While I can’t remember with certainty this far removed, I think the prayers at high school football games were the generic “Dear God”.
It appears that public prayer has always been a platform for pushing one's beliefs.
Yes, and sometimes terribly misused. As most of you know, I was in the WTC on 9/11. A week or so afterward, it was announced that there would be a town-wide gathering on the library lawn at which various clergy and town council people would speak about the reaction to the attacks. I went.
I left there seething with anger. Instead of calling for unity among all people, they were calling for people to come back to church, inferring that the attacks had happened because America had left God behind or some such drivel and that we all needed to join together as Christians against this evil force that had attacked us. "Everything's all right. If we turn back to God, it's all going to be all right". I'll never forget one of them saying that. Everything was NOT all right.
Meanwhile, there I stood, still finding out who of the many people I worked with--Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, Atheists, Who Knows What--were dead and who were alive. The attacks happened EXACTLY because of this sort of Us. V. Them type of thinking, and the churches were using the attacks as a recruiting tool and promoting the very divisiveness that was rare within the walls of the WTC while it stood. That thinking was from another religion, but it was still fundamentalist: We are RIGHT and you are WRONG, EVIL, because GOD says so.
I had people who said incredibly rude and stupid things to me, like "Get down on your knees and thank God for getting you out alive." Really? What about those 80+ coworkers, some of whom I knew for 20 years who were killed? What was I supposed to say to "God" about them? What about the workers I used to joke with at Cantor Fitz's cafeteria who were all now dead? What about the cop I saw every morning at the coffee place in the Concourse? Or Sam, the security guard who used to warn me, smiling, about the dangers of smoking when I went out through the West Street door for a cigarette? What about my friend who got caught in the lobby fireball and was in the Cornell burn unit where she would live another six weeks? What about those other smokers I saw every day, some of whom were out there and were shredded and decapitated by the entrance glass when AA11 slammed into us? Thank you God for killing them and not me?
What happened that day had nothing to do with God and everything to do with the worst of humanity, and it brought out some of the best and worst of humanity in the days that followed, and that public prayer meeting was one example of the worst.
1. Believe that following the path and teachings of Jesus can lead to an awareness and experience of the Sacred and the Oneness and Unity of all life;
2. Affirm that the teachings of Jesus provide but one of many ways to experience the Sacredness and Oneness of life, and that we can draw from diverse sources of wisdom in our spiritual journey; 3. Seek community that is inclusive of ALL people, including but not limited to:Conventional Christians and questioning skeptics, Believers and agnostics, Women and men,
Those of all sexual orientations and gender identities,Those of all classes and abilities;
4. Know that the way we behave towards one another is the fullest expression of what we believe;
5. Find grace in the search for understanding and believe there is more value in questioning than in absolutes;
6. Strive for peace and justice among all people;
7. Strive to protect and restore the integrity of our Earth;
8. Commit to a path of life-long learning, compassion, and selfless love
Wow, never heard the word Progressive Christianity before...I guess I am that.
To anyone...Don't get mad, but it's.... "We" fundamentalists...We women, We men...not, "Us" women, Us men...
A common mistake.
Yes, and sometimes terribly misused. As most of you know, I was in the WTC on 9/11. A week or so afterward, it was announced that there would be a town-wide gathering on the library lawn at which various clergy and town council people would speak about the reaction to the attacks. I went.
I left there seething with anger. Instead of calling for unity among all people, they were calling for people to come back to church, inferring that the attacks had happened because America had left God behind or some such drivel and that we all needed to join together as Christians against this evil force that had attacked us. "Everything's all right. If we turn back to God, it's all going to be all right". I'll never forget one of them saying that. Everything was NOT all right.
Meanwhile, there I stood, still finding out who of the many people I worked with--Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, Atheists, Who Knows What--were dead and who were alive. The attacks happened EXACTLY because of this sort of Us. V. Them type of thinking, and the churches were using the attacks as a recruiting tool and promoting the very divisiveness that was rare within the walls of the WTC while it stood. That thinking was from another religion, but it was still fundamentalist: We are RIGHT and you are WRONG, EVIL, because GOD says so.
I had people who said incredibly rude and stupid things to me, like "Get down on your knees and thank God for getting you out alive." Really? What about those 80+ coworkers, some of whom I knew for 20 years who were killed? What was I supposed to say to "God" about them? What about the workers I used to joke with at Cantor Fitz's cafeteria who were all now dead? What about the cop I saw every morning at the coffee place in the Concourse? Or Sam, the security guard who used to warn me, smiling, about the dangers of smoking when I went out through the West Street door for a cigarette? What about my friend who got caught in the lobby fireball and was in the Cornell burn unit where she would live another six weeks? What about those other smokers I saw every day, some of whom were out there and were shredded and decapitated by the entrance glass when AA11 slammed into us? Thank you God for killing them and not me?
What happened that day had nothing to do with God and everything to do with the worst of humanity, and it brought out some of the best and worst of humanity in the days that followed, and that public prayer meeting was one example of the worst.
A truly sincere and disturbing witness to one of our country's worst examples of man's inhumanity to man. Fanaticism, (religious or not) is one of humanity's worst traits. You are correct, MQ, God had nothing to do with what happened on 9/11. Everyone who promotes division and enmity for whatever reason is horribly misguided and adding to the evil in the world.
A truly sincere and disturbing witness to one of our country's worst examples of man's inhumanity to man. Fanaticism, (religious or not) is one of humanity's worst traits. You are correct, MQ, God had nothing to do with what happened on 9/11. Everyone who promotes division and enmity for whatever reason is horribly misguided and adding to the evil in the world.
they aren't saying 9-11 was caused by religion. They are saying that religion was the tool to carry out 9-11. sort of like a hand using a hammer.
But i agree. blaming religion is short sighted. In fact, as long as we allowed scared and broken people dictate the logic religion will never not be a problem. (either mentals or adult children of abuse)
they aren't saying 9-11 was caused by religion. They are saying that religion was the tool to carry out 9-11. sort of like a hand using a hammer.
But i agree. blaming religion is short-sighted. In fact, as long as we allowed scared and broken people dictate the logic religion will never not be a problem. (either mentals or adult children of abuse)
The poor souls who carried out 9/11 were misguided by their mentors who promoted division and enmity using religious belief. The mentors promoting such enmity are the guilty parties.
You mean in the community? Highly doubtful, but likely those who weren’t likely just tolerated it because the community overwhelmingly supported it. When I was in high school band, my director asked me to pray before each performance. It was just something small communities did.
I'm sure glad my band directors didn't do that. To my knowledge, we didn't have any Muslims in our school (of course, that was 50 years ago, and it's probably different now), but we did have a couple of Eastern Orthodox guys (one on sax and one on trombone), and there were Jewish people in the clarinet and trumpet sections. They were all good people and were all equally welcome as participating members of the band. I'm glad they weren't made to feel unwelcome.
The poor souls who carried out 9/11 were misguided by their mentors who promoted division and enmity using religious belief. The mentors promoting such enmity are the guilty parties.
The SOB's who commandeered those planes and flew them into the towers were guilty as hell, and are now rotting in hell. I have no pity on them. They made their choice.
The SOB's who commandeered those planes and flew them into the towers were guilty as hell, and are now rotting in hell. I have no pity on them. They made their choice.
They were just as sure as you that they were going to heaven, not hell.
That's religion for you, folks.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
