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Weather , you are such a blessing to this forum..You have shown me humbleness, faith, kindness and a mighty love for our God..You have "heard" the word of God very well and in my book you are just as much or more of a Christian than I am I am not much of a "hearer" of the word, because in the past what followed was a personal interpretation that made no sense to me.. I have loved reading the bible for years..I get so much from the beauty of the proverbs and psalms about the things I encounter in my daily life that I need instruction, comfort and wisdom from..When I seek to enrich my faith, I turn to Romans and when I need refreshment about Christs treachings, I go to the gospels..I don't read it every day or carry it around..It is something I do in my silence and loneness just before sleep..
To me, its a matter of Authority and where a Follower of Christ should placed it. Id be concerned if a proclaimed Christian Church didnt heavily encourage its members to dig into the Bible for personal growth in God (which the Bible itself says is mandatory : Acts 17:11 , 1 Tim. 3:16 and many others). Getting to know God deeply which is everyone ultimate purpose in life , is primarily and fundamentally thru his written inspired Word to mankind thruout the ages. Here is a brief treatise on the subject of Authority and how it kind of plays out in the R.C.C. , for your review . I submit this not as a bash, but as a fair comparison for your edification. Regards . :
...
Your decision will become critical as you discover that God's Word and the teachings of Catholicism are diametrically opposed on every doctrine we will examine.
Will you side with the words of God or the traditions of men?
[CENTER]"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." Matthew 24:35 [/CENTER] Note: Since the written Scriptures plainly state that they alone are the Word of God, for the remainder of this book, all references to the Word of God or God's Word will refer to the written Scriptures only, not the traditions of the Catholic church or the magisterium.
IbeDavid,
My apologies, I had truly wanted to read what you had posted, but as I got a few paragraphs into it, I found myself skimming. IMHO, what you have posted are words written by someone who does not care for the Catholic Church, for whatever reason. I appreciate your trying to enlighten me as to the "truth" as you see it. However, I submit to you some books for your own reading...
Surprised by Truth: 11 Converts Give the Biblical and Historical Reasons for Becoming Catholic. by Patrick Madrid
Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic by David B. Currie
Surprised By Truth 2: 15 Men and Women Give the Biblical and Historical Reasons For Becoming Catholic. by Patrick Madrid
What Catholics Really Believe-Setting the Record Straight: 52 Answers to Common Misconceptions About the Catholic Faith. by Karl Keating
I converted to Catholicism because it "fit" me. Forgive me if I misrepresented the Catholic Church when I said they discourage us from bringing our Bible to church with us. I in no way intended that to mean that The Church discourages us from "reading" our Bibles. (And guess what? We actually do own them. I think that I have at least 6 that I could find in less that 20 paces from where I sit now. I even think that mine may be a little more "complete" than yours.) During the RCIA process (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) the adults actually leave Mass and "break open the word". This is a time for reading the BIBLE and discussing how WE interpret it and how it applies to our lives.
My gramma was Catholic as were all of my mothers family (1st generation Irish immigrants) Me and my 2 sisters and 2 brothers spent a lot of time each summer visiting her when we were very young..Each Sunday morning she fixed our (girls) hair, dressed us up in pretty dresses fixed our hats and handed us our white gloves and small KJ new testament bibles..My gramma with her wisdom and flair for words and writing wrote in each one for us.."A verse a day, keeps the devil away" I wish I still had that little bible
I would like to start a civil discussion on the Bible and its use, whether in our personal lives or in our church.
More times than not, I read (in posts in CD) that the Bible should be read daily. I just was reading in another thread that there are those that carry their Bible to church with them. I have been to such churches. My husband also likes to watch a few TV evangilists that encourage you to "open your Bible" while they are teaching.
I very rarely (read almost never) open my Bible. This is not something that I am bragging about. It is just the simple truth. Does this make me less of a Christian than the person who spends hours on end studying their Bible? I'd like to think not.
In the Catholic Church you will not see parishoners with Bibles at Mass. However, the Book of the Gospels is there. It is processed into the church held high for all to see. It is then placed before the congregation until the time that the Priest retrieves it. At that time he kneels in reverence before picking it up and again he holds it high for all the congregation to see. He then goes to the ambo and proclaims the Word from it. Prior to his reading, we (the congregation) sign ourselves on the forehead, the lips, and the heart. This is to remind us that the Word is always on our mind, on our lips, and in our heart. After the Priest reads the gospel, he kisses it, again holds it high before the congregation and says, "The Gospel of the Lord" to which the congregation replies, "Praise be to the Lord, Jesus Christ".
During Sunday morning Mass we hear three readings from the Bible. There is a three year cycle for the readings. In three years, if you attended Mass every day, you will have heard the entire Bible proclaimed. I was taught during my conversion into Catholicism that the reason we do not read along with the proclamation of the Word is because we are to "hear" it. If we listen/hear the Word, the Holy Spirit will speak to us as it applies to "our" lives. We may each hear the Word differently. We may also hear the word differently on an individual basis at different times. (Did that make sense?)
I hope that I have done well to explain myself. I ask that this not be a thread to argue on who is right and who is wrong. I hope that we can all learn from each other in this thread.
Thanks be to God.
<>< weather...
I own one (somewhere - not sure where) and don't feel compelled to read it daily or often. I read a lot in college in a historical class about the top three religions and then in Western Civ.
Our church is Presbyterian and it's similar to Catholic liturgy in regards to the Bible. It's held up during the procession when the pastors come in, placed in waiting until the first reading. Just no kneeling, kissing, or signing. No one brings Bibles to church either, although anyone would be free to do so if they wanted to.
I guess I just don't see it as some magical book that will "fix" me or answer all of life's questions. I trust my pastors' interpretation, and if they ever said something that sounded odd to me, I'd find the Bible at home and look it up. IMO, as you move down the spectrum of Christianity into Protestantism, at some point is seems almost like "Bible worship" to me.
weather,
Not reading the Bible makes you no less a Christian than having your children move to another state where you do not have close contact with them makes you less a parent. The difference is whose choice it was. I was raised Catholic and like you heard the Bible in church. I was intrigued by your statement that in three years you will have heard the Bible thru readings in church. My current "read thru the Bible" plan has me reading 3-4 chapters every day for a year. Admittedly I have not been in a Catholic mass in years but I don't remember them reading enough to cover the Bible in 156 Sundays.
Please do not take this in any way to be a slam on Catholics. Many Evangelicals listen to the Bible read on Sunday. I would just suggest you try reading the manufacturer's handbook. Start with Mark's gospel and see how it goes.
I own one (somewhere - not sure where) and don't feel compelled to read it daily or often.
<snip>
I guess I just don't see it as some magical book that will "fix" me or answer all of life's questions. I trust my pastors' interpretation, and if they ever said something that sounded odd to me, I'd find the Bible at home and look it up. IMO, as you move down the spectrum of Christianity into Protestantism, at some point is seems almost like "Bible worship" to me.
I don't think it's bible worship. It's just the degree of authority given scripture. It's not "magical", but I do believe God's word is the supreme authority and has all the answers we need to live our lives according to God's will (Psalm 119:104-106). How do we know what God's will is for us, as humans in general, if we don't read what he has revealed to us?
To have it read to you and put your trust in a pastor/priest is fine. But, your priest/pastor is just as human as you and me and he is fully capable of getting it wrong and unintentionally misleading others and make it sound very plausible. Reading on one's own can guard against this.
It's been my experience that many (notice, I said many, not all) who don't read their bibles on their own just don't appreciate how the word of God convicts their spirit, so they avoid it (Hebrews 4:12).
IbeDavid,
My apologies, I had truly wanted to read what you had posted, but as I got a few paragraphs into it, I found myself skimming. IMHO, what you have posted are words written by someone who does not care for the Catholic Church, for whatever reason. I appreciate your trying to enlighten me as to the "truth" as you see it. However, I submit to you some books for your own reading...
Surprised by Truth: 11 Converts Give the Biblical and Historical Reasons for Becoming Catholic. by Patrick Madrid
Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic by David B. Currie
Surprised By Truth 2: 15 Men and Women Give the Biblical and Historical Reasons For Becoming Catholic. by Patrick Madrid
What Catholics Really Believe-Setting the Record Straight: 52 Answers to Common Misconceptions About the Catholic Faith. by Karl Keating
I converted to Catholicism because it "fit" me. Forgive me if I misrepresented the Catholic Church when I said they discourage us from bringing our Bible to church with us. I in no way intended that to mean that The Church discourages us from "reading" our Bibles. (And guess what? We actually do own them. I think that I have at least 6 that I could find in less that 20 paces from where I sit now. I even think that mine may be a little more "complete" than yours.) During the RCIA process (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) the adults actually leave Mass and "break open the word". This is a time for reading the BIBLE and discussing how WE interpret it and how it applies to our lives.
Happy reading,
<>< weather...
REPLY: I beg to differ with you on why you chose a church based on 'fit' ; first and foremost, a church selection should be based on how close it desires its attendees to read it, study it diligently, test all teachings according to it even from a Churches own Teachers, if the real Gospel is taught and defended (with no other means to salvation) , and if any added traditions dispute what the Bible clearly teaches and/or negates any part of the finished work of Jesus at Calvary. THAT has to be the primary standard for selecting a church , then, as a secondary issue....'the fit' can be considered.
I agree with your concern regarding your Parish holding up high the Bible , yet not strongly encouraging Catholics to dive into it everyday making IT the final authority .. instead of putting the Church Leaders and madeup Traditions on equal par which can be absolutely proven (upon your request) to not be found in the Bible and which serves to nullify important biblical Doctrines ; but i guess if they did encourage you to read the Bible for personal study...you might find a dichotomy between Canon Law of Vatican 2 which says Catholics "MUST submit thier entire will and intellect to the teaching Majesterioum of the Catholic church" ...whereas the Bible itself says to submit yourself to the Authority of Gods Word ALONE , and, to check out what a Teacher says from the Pulpit or Chair to see if it lines up with The Bible ALONE (Acts 17:11 and 2 Tim. 3:15-16).
If you are convinced youve found absolute truth being taught within the walls of the R.C.C., then, you should not be hesitant to see how it stacks up against the Bible for comparison. Ive studied R.C. ism very diligently, including : breaking bread with Priests, attending R.C. Classes, debating Catholic defenders , reading the CCC , and talking to many Parishoners . And i can tell you that you would be absolutely flabergasted to discover just how far from biblical teaching the R.C.C. has become since its inception. Im sure by now youve gathered some great friends in the R.C.C. and have found comfortability..however.. that is all secondary to the issue of honoring God thru the authority ALONE of the Bible ,and, your salvation which must be secured in THIS life as 1 John 5:13 and John 5:24 and Eph. 2:8-10 indicates.
Finally, dont let ANY church control you to the point of making you submit your mind, intellect, and will to its Teachers . That is not of God at all. Regards.
i think that in order to maintain the contemplative, cooperative tone originally desired in this thread, we ought to steer clear of the my-club-is-better-than-your-club deal. this is clearly not what the op was trying to converse about, and i think it disrespectful to interrupt with your preaching about how wrong her beliefs and traditions are, especially since there is not a single chuch on the face of the earth right now that practices exactly as did the first christians underneath Christ's original apostles.
aaron out.
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I am not much of a "hearer" of the word, because in the past what followed was a personal interpretation that made no sense to me
.. I have loved reading the bible for years..I get so much from the beauty of the proverbs and psalms about the things I encounter in my daily life that I need instruction, comfort and wisdom from..When I seek to enrich my faith, I turn to Romans and when I need refreshment about Christs treachings, I go to the gospels..I don't read it every day or carry it around..It is something I do in my silence and loneness just before sleep..
) During the RCIA process (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) the adults actually leave Mass and "break open the word". This is a time for reading the BIBLE and discussing how WE interpret it and how it applies to our lives.
