Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think that it might have something to do with buying and selling that which is spiritual not physical
Isa 55:1 "Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
Isa 55:2 Why do you spend your money for that which is not bread, and your labor for that which does not satisfy? Listen diligently to me, and eat what is good, and delight yourselves in rich food.
Isa 55:3 Incline your ear, and come to me; hear, that your soul may live; and I will make with you an everlasting covenant, my steadfast, sure love for David.
Isa 55:4 Behold, I made him a witness to the peoples, a leader and commander for the peoples.
Isa 55:5 Behold, you shall call a nation that you do not know, and a nation that did not know you shall run to you, because of the LORD your God, and of the Holy One of Israel, for he has glorified you.
Isa 55:6 "Seek the LORD while he may be found; call upon him while he is near;
Isa 55:7 let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isa 55:10 "For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return there but water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout, giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater,
Isa 55:11 so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.
Isa 55:12 "For you shall go out in joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and the hills before you shall break forth into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
Isa 55:13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the cypress; instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle; and it shall make a name for the LORD, an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off."
The mark of the number or the name is that of the beast, if it is spiritual then it is spiritual darkness.
The woes create a reality of pain, suffering, starvation. Which will cause rulers of gov't to create systems that regulate and control the limited resources of food, water, energy, and equipment.
Was this supposed to be funny? I asked a serious question of Christians. The beast is the AntiChrist, which is probably alive and making great plans for his "mark". I am really appalled at what you said.
1.The time is near for Christ manifesting himself to those that keep His commandments, and are transfigured/quickened etc..
2. The time is near for the return of Christ in His Kingdom. A day to the lord is a thousand yrs. etc....
I can if it makes sense, clearly most of Revelation has not been fulfilled, the Kings and rulers army is hundreds of millions, these are not angels souly.
The world does not concern me, as much as spiritual understanding of how the world shall be effected.
THe time is near, it is closer everyday. Do not fear it, or deny it. It is a day of Glory for the Kingdom of God and those that seek His Kingdom.
I don't have a difficult time with soon, near, or any other designation, i do think that what you think is near, soon, is not the fullfillment of Jesus returning in His kingdom and binding Satan for a 1,000 yrs.
Do you think Satan has been bound?
Does not SOON mean SOON, freedom? Does not AT HAND mean AT HAND? Why will you not accept that?
Yes, those events were foretold by Jesus, and they did happen soon, even at the death and ressurection of Christ. They are not the complete events that Revelation depicts.
THe coming of the Lord is at hand, to anyone that lives Christ, He will return and He and the Father shall make their abode with anyone that lives the commandments. Not too many people have taken Him up on that promise.
I have friend, and they speak of the now, and the future.
They can also be the letter that killeth, we must be vigilant in understanding, and i believe you are, but that you don't have the full story of how Jesus will return to any that are prepared to recieve of His fullness. Even now.
THat generation had the same promise as the full generation of this earth's graduating class.
I will re-ead, thanks for your patience and desire to know and share.
godspeed,
freedom
freedom: Do you not see how you misuse a simple word such as "near?" In your use, it has absolutely no meaning whatsoever. But that is not how it is used in the Scriptures and in our own everyday lives. Do you think those who first heard those terms in the NT understood them as you do? I think not. When James wrote "the coming of the Lord is AT HAND," he meant that the Lord was coming soon in his lifetime.
I challenged you to look up ALL the verses in which this same term (engizo) is used to see whether you have problems understanding it in its normal, everyday, common usage when it does not deal with future things. In case you have not yet done that, let me provide some of them for you. Please look up the context.
Matthew 21:1-"they drew NEAR unto Jerusalem"
Matthew 21:34-"when the time of the fruit drew NEAR"
Matthew 26:45-"Behold, the hour is AT HAND"
Matthew 26:46-"he is AT HAND that doth betray Me"
Mark 11:1-"when they came NEAR to Jerusalem"
Luke 7:12-"when he came NEAR to the gate of the city"
Luke 15:25-"as he came and drew NEAR to the house"
Luke 18:35-"as he came NEAR unto Jerusalem"
Luke 22:1-"the feast of unleavened bread drew NEAR"
Acts 7:17-"the time of the promise drew NEAR"
How do you understand that same term in the above verses, freedom?
What about the word used in Revelation 1:3 and 22:10--engus?
How do you understand that same term in these passages (there are others)? Again, consider the contexts.
Matthew 24:32-"You know that summer is NEAR"
John 2:13--"the Jews' passover was AT HAND"
John 6:4--"the passover, a feast of the Jews, was AT HAND
John 7:2--"Jews' feast of tabernacles was AT HAND"
John 19:20--""was crucified was NEAR to the city"
Acts 9:38--"as Lydda was NEAR to Joppa"
NEAR means soon or in close proximity--always! freedom, you are redefining these terms to fit your preconceived ideas concerning the Lord's return!
When Peter wrote "the end of all things is AT HAND," he meant near in its common everyday usage. What is the CONTEXT of 2 Peter 3? Peter is definitely not teaching that time has no meaning with God and that God uses words in a completely different meaning from how we would normally understand them. Peter is teaching on the faithfulness of God--What He promises, He WILL do. We must remember that God is "other" than we are. In other words, He is not bound by time and cannot be bound by time. But He created time and placed us in it. When He communicates with us, He does so with words that have meaning to us. It would be an act of cruelty for God to communicate with us by using terms in a different way than He knew we would take them. He is not the God of confusing!
Notice also that 2 Peter 3:8 says very clearly "WITH THE LORD one day is AS a thousand years." It does NOT say that one day equals a thousand years any more than it says a thousand years equal a day! Nowhere and in no way can this or should this be made to teach that time statements should not be taken at face value. It is interesting to me that people who rip this verse out of context to negate the intended impact of clear time indicators never continue the verse. Should we not also believe that "a thousand years is as a day?" Perhaps your millennium will really only last one day! Please, let's use verses in their context lest we make them say something they do not!
freedom, you will never understand the Revelation unless and until you allow it to be seen in its proper historical setting--within those things which were then to shortly take place because the time was then near!
In Christ, Preterist
disclaimer: The capital letters are not anger but emphasis!
Great thread with a lot of very interesting responses. I haven't voted yet because I just don't know. I agree with the ladies that it's not a laughing matter. Eternity is a very long, never-ending time.
Whatever the mark is, I do believe, as the Bible says, that it will be placed on the hand or forehead. I can't make an educated prediction because I haven't put much time, study or prayer into this topic. (Yet.) The chip would make a lot of sense to me. It would have to be something that can be read by a scanner of some kind because, if it will be a cashless society that runs on a system of credits and debits.
Great thread with a lot of very interesting responses. I haven't voted yet because I just don't know. I agree with the ladies that it's not a laughing matter. Eternity is a very long, never-ending time.
Whatever the mark is, I do believe, as the Bible says, that it will be placed on the hand or forehead. I can't make an educated prediction because I haven't put much time, study or prayer into this topic. (Yet.) The chip would make a lot of sense to me. It would have to be something that can be read by a scanner of some kind because, if it will be a cashless society that runs on a system of credits and debits.
!!! Computer chips? Cashless society? Yes, please put a lot of time, study and prayer into this topic and you will find that there were no computer chips and no scanners back in the first century when the events of this book unfolded (pre-A.D. 70). Please investigate the history of that time to see how those first-century listeners and hearers would have understood John's words since they were first addressed to them and their situation.
I am not being unkind when I say this, Simple Living, but why do you post things and say that something makes sense to you when you have not studied the issue?
You should begin with the first three verses of the Revelation:
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near."
!!! Computer chips? Cashless society? Yes, please put a lot of time, study and prayer into this topic and you will find that there were no computer chips and no scanners back in the first century when the events of this book unfolded (pre-A.D. 70). Please investigate the history of that time to see how those first-century listeners and hearers would have understood John's words since they were first addressed to them and their situation.
I am not being unkind when I say this, Simple Living, but why do you post things and say that something makes sense to you when you have not studied the issue?
You should begin with the first three verses of the Revelation:
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near."
Great thread with a lot of very interesting responses. I haven't voted yet because I just don't know. I agree with the ladies that it's not a laughing matter. Eternity is a very long, never-ending time.
Whatever the mark is, I do believe, as the Bible says, that it will be placed on the hand or forehead. I can't make an educated prediction because I haven't put much time, study or prayer into this topic. (Yet.) The chip would make a lot of sense to me. It would have to be something that can be read by a scanner of some kind because, if it will be a cashless society that runs on a system of credits and debits.
Simple Living,
Rev 7:3 "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God."
Lets agree for the sake of discussion that the micro chip is being referenced to. What then is this "mark" or seal on the forehead of believers going to be? I would think that a person who is a believer would be just as inquisitive.
Though I disagree with the end conclusion to the arguments Preterist makes, it still is a valid point that he is making.
How did this apply (the mark) to other generations when no computer technology existed prior 1930? (let alone the technology that it would take to develope such a micro chip, insert it and work correctly.)
Simple Living,
Rev 7:3 "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God."
Lets agree for the sake of discussion that the micro chip is being referenced to. What then is this "mark" or seal on the forehead of believers going to be? I would think that a person who is a believer would be just as inquisitive.
Though I disagree with the end conclusion to the arguments Preterist makes, it still is a valid point that he is making.
How did this apply (the mark) to other generations when no computer technology existed prior 1930? (let alone the technology that it would take to develope such a micro chip, insert it and work correctly.)
I think the seal on the foreheads of the believers will only be seen by the believers, maybe a cross, but it will something that will identify them as believers.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
!!! Computer chips? Cashless society? Yes, please put a lot of time, study and prayer into this topic and you will find that there were no computer chips and no scanners back in the first century when the events of this book unfolded (pre-A.D. 70). Please investigate the history of that time to see how those first-century listeners and hearers would have understood John's words since they were first addressed to them and their situation.
