Our new relationship to the law. (Christ, Isaiah, Matthew, faith)
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The early apostles (including Paul) were tested by the early church and found to be true (Revelation 2:2).
If the tree is good, then so is the fruit (Matthew 7:15-20).
Paul, who was found to be a true apostle, wrote the following.
2Ti 3:15, And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17, That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Your trust in the early church leaders is misplaced! They were still ignorant carnal minds who feared God and damnation and were terrified of Spirits. That is why Jesus was so circumspect trying to teach them spiritual things. They had to be given "carnal milk" because they simply were not ready for the spiritual truth.
That is why they so badly misinterpreted what Jesus did on the Cross as appeasement of a wrathful God instead of a demonstration of God's agape love and forgiveness. Please free your mind from their ignorance and THINK, brother. Agape love and forgiveness is the Gospel lesson of the Cross and the purpose of our existence. Believe Jesus, NOT the Bible that just points to Jesus.
Your trust in the early church leaders is misplaced! They were still ignorant carnal minds who feared God and damnation and were terrified of Spirits. That is why Jesus was so circumspect trying to teach them spiritual things. They had to be given "carnal milk" because they simply were not ready for the spiritual truth.
That is why they so badly misinterpreted what Jesus did on the Cross as appeasement of a wrathful God instead of a demonstration of God's agape love and forgiveness. Please free your mind from their ignorance and THINK, brother. Agape love and forgiveness is the Gospel lesson of the Cross and the purpose of our existence. Believe Jesus, NOT the Bible that just points to Jesus.
However, it is not one or the other exclusively
It is about understanding, interpreting, translating in the right way
The interpretation and translation and transfiguration that we are to strive for is not about the purely literal and grammatical, it is about the meaning of the symbolism, the timing of the narratives, and what it points to, that all of His own people have fallen short on
The Scriptures are written to specific people, about specific things that need to be understood in context
Mat 1:21**And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mat 1:22**Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23**Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Rom 3:21**But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22**Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23**For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24**Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25**Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26**To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27**Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28**Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 3:29**Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30**Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31**Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Your trust in the early church leaders is misplaced! They were still ignorant carnal minds who feared God and damnation and were terrified of Spirits. That is why Jesus was so circumspect trying to teach them spiritual things. They had to be given "carnal milk" because they simply were not ready for the spiritual truth.
That is why they so badly misinterpreted what Jesus did on the Cross as appeasement of a wrathful God instead of a demonstration of God's agape love and forgiveness. Please free your mind from their ignorance and THINK, brother. Agape love and forgiveness is the Gospel lesson of the Cross and the purpose of our existence. Believe Jesus, NOT the Bible that just points to Jesus.
So, I should place my trust in YOU as a determinant of what is sound doctrine in the Bible, rather than in them?
Jesus said of the early church leaders that His Holy Spirit would guide them into all truth; and would bring to their remembrance all that He had spoken to them.
The lesson of the Cross is that Jesus died in our place and this ought to produce in our hearts thankfulness and gratitude. We ought to love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19).
It is the basic message of the gospel that Jesus died for our sins and in our place (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
When you diminish from that basic message, you deter people from receiving salvation through the forgiveness that is inherent in the Cross.
Your trust in the early church leaders is misplaced! They were still ignorant carnal minds who feared God and damnation and were terrified of Spirits. That is why Jesus was so circumspect trying to teach them spiritual things. They had to be given "carnal milk" because they simply were not ready for the spiritual truth.
That is why they so badly misinterpreted what Jesus did on the Cross as appeasement of a wrathful God instead of a demonstration of God's agape love and forgiveness. Please free your mind from their ignorance and THINK, brother. Agape love and forgiveness is the Gospel lesson of the Cross and the purpose of our existence. Believe Jesus, NOT the Bible that just points to Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
So, I should place my trust in YOU as a determinant of what is sound doctrine in the Bible, rather than in them?
Jesus said of the early church leaders that His Holy Spirit would guide them into all truth; and would bring to their remembrance all that He had spoken to them.
Why do you insist on pretending that you have to follow ME??? I have told you repeatedly that you have to follow the True Nature of God and His Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness as revealed and unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross. What about that do you NOT understand?
You can do it just as easily as I can. Jesus said that WE, NOT just our ancestors, would have the Holy Spirit (Comforter) to guides us to the truth God has written our hearts. You should be using the Holy Spirit (Comforter) who abides with us, NOT our ancestors' interpretations.
You just stubbornly refuse to do it and prefer to blindly accept everything in the Bible at face value without testing its Spirit against God's Holy Spirit. Preferring to trust the early church leaders' interpretations is just laziness and REAL foolishness. You have replaced Jesus and God's Holy Spirit with our ignorant ancestors' interpretations of both.
Quote:
The lesson of the Cross is that Jesus died in our place and this ought to produce in our hearts thankfulness and gratitude. We ought to love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19).
It is the basic message of the gospel that Jesus died for our sins and in our place (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
When you diminish from that basic message, you deter people from receiving salvation through the forgiveness that is inherent in the Cross.
Jesus DID die in our place but NOT for the barbaric reason you insist on believing. He did what none of us could EVER do. He brought God's PERFECT Holy Spirit to His HUMAN spirit and when it was "born again" AS SPIRIT on His death, it became the Holy Spirit (Comforter) identical to God's and connected ALL "born again" human Spirits with God permanently. That is how He is the only Way to God and how He saved us from any separation from God.
Why do you insist on pretending that you have to follow ME??? I have told you repeatedly that you have to follow the True Nature of God and His Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness as revealed and unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross. What about that do you NOT understand?
You can do it just as easily as I can. Jesus said that WE, NOT just our ancestors, would have the Holy Spirit (Comforter) to guides us to the truth God has written our hearts. You should be using the Holy Spirit (Comforter) who abides with us, NOT our ancestors' interpretations.
You just stubbornly refuse to do it and prefer to blindly accept everything in the Bible at face value without testing its Spirit against God's Holy Spirit. Preferring to trust the early church leaders' interpretations is just laziness and REAL foolishness. You have replaced Jesus and God's Holy Spirit with our ignorant ancestors' interpretations of both.Jesus DID die in our place but NOT for the barbaric reason you insist on believing. He did what none of us could EVER do. He brought God's PERFECT Holy Spirit to His HUMAN spirit and when it was "born again" AS SPIRIT on His death, it became the Holy Spirit (Comforter) identical to God's and connected ALL "born again" human Spirits with God permanently. That is how He is the only Way to God and how He saved us from any separation from God.
Jesus died on the Cross in order to satisfy the wrath and justice of a holy God against sin committed by sinners like you and me.
If you agree that God gave the Holy Spirit to our ancestors, why do you not accept their testing of the holy scriptures as being valid? You do not have to re-test what has already been tested; as if the first test wasn't good enough. There comes a time and place where you trust the testimony of the early church; especially that of the apostles who actually penned the holy scripture.
They were tested by the early church and found to be true apostles (Revelation 2:2).
If the tree is good, then the fruit is also good (Matthew 7:15-20).
So the fruit of the early apostles, which was the holy scriptures, is tested and found to be righteous because those who penned them were found to be righteous.
It is about understanding, interpreting, translating in the right way
The interpretation and translation and transfiguration that we are to strive for is not about the purely literal and grammatical, it is about the meaning of the symbolism, the timing of the narratives, and what it points to, that all of His own people have fallen short on
The Scriptures are written to specific people, about specific things that need to be understood in context
Mat 1:21**And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mat 1:22**Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23**Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Rom 3:21**But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22**Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23**For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24**Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25**Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26**To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27**Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28**Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 3:29**Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30**Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31**Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
I agree. The Scriptures are written to specific people and about specific things that must be understood in context. And symbolism must be understood for what it is just as that which is literal must be understood in that context.
Jesus died on the Cross in order to satisfy the wrath and justice of a holy God against sin committed by sinners like you and me.
If you agree that God gave the Holy Spirit to our ancestors, why do you not accept their testing of the holy scriptures as being valid? You do not have to re-test what has already been tested; as if the first test wasn't good enough. There comes a time and place where you trust the testimony of the early church; especially that of the apostles who actually penned the holy scripture.
They were tested by the early church and found to be true apostles (Revelation 2:2).
If the tree is good, then the fruit is also good (Matthew 7:15-20).
So the fruit of the early apostles, which was the holy scriptures, is tested and found to be righteous because those who penned them were found to be righteous.
You have chosen a foolish and faulty path by placing your trust in mere men instead of Jesus and His Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness. Jesus is the ONLY source we have of Truth and He is the Only Way to God and eternal Life. You have been following false teachings from our ignorant but well-intentioned ancestors instead of Jesus and His "mind of Christ."
You have chosen a foolish and faulty path by placing your trust in mere men instead of Jesus and His Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness. Jesus is the ONLY source we have of Truth and He is the Only Way to God and eternal Life. You have been following false teachings from our ignorant but well-intentioned ancestors instead of Jesus and His "mind of Christ."
I am trusting in the Holy Spirit as He has been given to me; He has testified to me that all scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness.
So, my trust is completely in the Holy Spirit and His testimony to me...
He has not only testified of this to me in this word but I have an inward witness that tells me that I can trust the whole of the Bible to give me the unadulterated message of the whole counsel of the word of God and the gospel of Jesus Christ.
I am trusting in the Holy Spirit as He has been given to me; He has testified to me that all scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness.
So, my trust is completely in the Holy Spirit and His testimony to me...
He has not only testified of this to me in this word but I have an inward witness that tells me that I can trust the whole of the Bible to give me the unadulterated message of the whole counsel of the word of God and the gospel of Jesus Christ.
If you were NOT in one or more of the states of mind associated with God's Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness as revealed by Jesus on the Cross, you were NOT receiving any guidance from the Holy Spirit. I would definitely be concerned about what kind of Spirit you were getting guidance from.
If you were NOT in one or more of the states of mind associated with God's Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness as revealed by Jesus on the Cross, you were NOT receiving any guidance from the Holy Spirit. I would definitely be concerned about what kind of Spirit you were getting guidance from.
The fact that God's wrath and justice against my sins has been satisfied in the Cross in no way means that I am not in "a state of mind associated with God's Holy Spirit of agape love."
Last edited by justbyfaith; 01-24-2022 at 11:53 PM..
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