Come unto me (Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ, Bible, Creator)

[daisiesnfreckles]

Originally Posted by aquila

Don't confuse the phrase "come as you are" with "accept you as your are". You quoted a part of my post in which I specifically referenced acceptance, but responded with all kinds of words about coming as you are. There's a difference. ACCEPTING someone as they are means just that....you accept them as they are without demanding something to change in exchange for your acceptance. If I have to stop being a gay man in order to be acceptable to God....and you will agree that is true....then that means I'm not accepted as I am. To me, it's simple. I don't know how else to explain it.



So are you presuming I don't have faith that He can do anything about it?



Alright....case in point: Why hasn't that happened? If I tell you that after years of struggling, I'm still gay - are you going to tell me I haven't had any faith? Are you going to presume I haven't told Him I want to change? I've cried tears and begged to go blind or get cancer in exchange for homosexuality. That's how much I've cried out to God in the past about my desire to be straight...for Him to make me into what He wanted me to be. Was that not strong enough desire? (I don't know why I'm bothering to say these things to you.....or why I'm asking you these questions. You'll just glide over them.)

Aquila, I'm so sorry! Reading about your struggle virtually breaks my heart in two. I've never known anyone with your struggle (I've had gay friends, just no one struggling to not be gay), but I've known several people with struggles of their own...struggles to be free of things they feel wrong for being or having (my husband struggled with his own demons for years before finally being set free), and it is so very hard to see them in so much pain! I will never equate, just to answer your question, a lack of results with a lack of faith. For anyone to insinuate that you have no faith because you are still gay does not speak of God's presence in their life, so please don't assume their answer speaks for all Christians (I'm just sad that it speaks for some ). As bchris02 stated earlier, I don't agree with homosexuality because the Bible states it is wrong. However, that won't stand in my way of loving you, and if you'd like the prayers of anyone on here, I can guarrantee you'll have them.

[aquila]

I'm going to respond to the following posts (and if I'm not responding to some, it's nothing personal)...and then I really mean it when I say I didn't want to hijack this thread and turn it into something about me and homosexuality.

Originally Posted by bchris02

That was wrong on the part of the churches to treat you that way...unfortunately that is how most churches other than UCC or MCC will treat a gay person in their congregation. Christians will never win homosexuals to the Lord with that attitude.

So then why are some of your posts filled with such vitriol aimed at gays and lesbians?

Originally Posted by bchris02

That said, there is a difference between welcoming and affirming what the Bible clearly teaches as sin. Ideally, the church should show you the love of Christ as that is what He has instructed us to do, but they should also direct and help you toward the right path. As a Bible-believing Christian, I cannot in good conscious tell you that homosexuality is not a sin and that your relationship with your boyfriend.....

Whoa. Excuse me? When did I say anything about having a boyfriend?

See - clear example right there of you guys reading something that isn't there. You automatically assume that because I say I'm gay, then it surely must mean I'm humping some hunk in my bed at night.

When are Christians going to learn that being gay has NOTHING to do with some "lifestyle" or "sexual act"?

Originally Posted by bchris02

is holy before God, because the Bible says contrary. I will say that God will accept you as you are and He will change your life, if you genuinely repent of your sins and accept Him as your Saviour.

And you presume I haven't done that, right? Because somehow you know my life better than I know it myself, right?

Originally Posted by esselcue

Aquila...I said once before in another thread, Christianity is not the only way to spiritual fulfillment. You do not need to change who you are or how you live your life (unless you are harming others, which I seriously doubt), or read more of the Bible or deny the person you are, or any other of the well-meaning suggestions given you on this board/thread. What you need to do is to find a way to love yourself for who you are, stop listening to those who tell you to "change" (I do not believe homosexual people are that way by choice) and then investigate other spiritual paths. There are a lot of loving, fulfilling paths to peace in this world...don't limit yourself to the Christian religion if it is causing you this much pain. It did not work for me either (straight woman), never helped with my burdens, never solved my pain or problems. Many of us feel the same...

Thank you so much for your kind words. I did indeed read your other post, and I'm afraid I didn't get around to responding to it yet, did I? I'm sorry.

As it turns out, I did do a Google search about Jesus and Dharmism. Kinda interesting, and it does invoke a sense of peace. I don't think I could ever give up my belief in Jesus Himself. I believe too strongly in His message and what His death/resurrection accomplished. However, I also tend to think that His true message - or at least some deeper truths - may have been distorted over the centuries, and that it's possible the early church had a different view of spirituality than what is commonly passed on in contemporary churches. I mean, after all, if the Catholic Church can tell you it's okay not to take the Bible literally and that it's okay to believe in evolution and that you can get saved via other religions that don't believe in Jesus....then who's to say Dharmism and Buddhism aren't valid access points to the true path. Even Catholic monks dialog with Buddhists.

A new expression of Christianity (Protestantism) started over 1500 years after the resurrection and was based on the ideas of a man himself (Luther). To think that expression would have it right is somewhat suspect to me.

Who exactly is following the undiluted pure teachings of Jesus?

Originally Posted by bchris02

Sometimes we don't understand why God allows certain things, but He has promised us He will never allow us to be tempted more than we have the ability to overcome.

Well now, how would that apply to men who are struggling with lust? Paul stated it was better to marry than to burn. So essentially he gave men a way of escaping their temptation.

Tell me something.....where is the escape for gays and lesbians who struggle with lust?

[bchris02]

Originally Posted by aquila

So then why are some of your posts filled with such vitriol aimed at gays and lesbians?

I have extremely homophobic family and friends, and sometimes some of that rubs off on me. Sometimes people are so personally abhorred by the act of gay sex that they blow it up into something much bigger than it is, almost unforgivable. When Paul listed out the sins, homosexuality was in the middle of that list, not at the top. I am going to try to do better about the things I say about gays in the future.

Its the militant ones like the ones out in CA protesting Prop 8 that make me mad.

Originally Posted by aquila

Whoa. Excuse me? When did I say anything about having a boyfriend?

See - clear example right there of you guys reading something that isn't there. You automatically assume that because I say I'm gay, then it surely must mean I'm humping some hunk in my bed at night.

When are Christians going to learn that being gay has NOTHING to do with some "lifestyle" or "sexual act"?

I apologize. I could have sworn I read somewhere in another one of your posts that you had a boyfriend. You're right, sexual orientation and sexual act are different things...ones not a sin and one is.

Originally Posted by aquila

And you presume I haven't done that, right? Because somehow you know my life better than I know it myself, right?

I don't know you, and I was more speaking in general terms. If you have done that, then thats great news. Don't give up on the faith just because it gets hard. God allowed Satan to test Job with very difficult circumstances to see if he would lose faith.

Originally Posted by aquila

Well now, how would that apply to men who are struggling with lust? Paul stated it was better to marry than to burn. So essentially he gave men a way of escaping their temptation.

Tell me something.....where is the escape for gays and lesbians who struggle with lust?

Ill tell you one thing...its not pornography. That will just feed that lust and it will get much more difficult to control. The first thing I would suggest if you haven't already is to make a commitment to stay clean of pornography.

[World Citizen]

Originally Posted by aquila

....and then I really mean it when I say I didn't want to hijack this thread and turn it into something about me and homosexuality.

I'm not cg81 but I'm sure that in this case he doesn't mind that you entered into this conversation.

His post was Come Unto Me... his point was that God asks each of us to come to Him with our burdens...

Your questions were sincere. I only hope some bridges have been built that may inspire you to find a church and sit in the pew, to read your Bible, to pray to God in Jesus Name.... to want to know Jesus and to fall in love with Him.

This is the problem with churches that are more concerned with sin than with what Jesus did for us on Calvary. But, you see, some things have not changed since the time of Jesus. There is much legalism and many modern day Pharisees in the christian world. This was the reason God put Jesus on earth to show His heart to man and to even die for our sins as the unspotted, Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

If you feel drawn to know God, that drawing is from God. We are drawn to Him by the power of His Holy Spirit.

The same God that raised Jesus from the dead is still in the business of restoring people's lives.

Sin is sin to God. God sees your heart.

[World Citizen]

aquila,

I would like to add one more thing. I hope you'll receive it in the spirit intended.
Based on my previous posts to you in this thread, I hope you know my heart.

When you go into a church, why do you feel compelled to tell them you're gay?

When people go to church they don't go in talking about their struggles and their failures.
That is between them and God.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Albert Einstein

[aquila]

Before I respond, I just want to announce that there is NOTHING in any of my posts that say anything about me engaging in porn.

Originally Posted by World Citizen

I'm not cg81 but I'm sure that in this case he doesn't mind that you entered into this conversation.

Nevertheless, it's not fair to cg81 that the thread got hijacked.

Originally Posted by World Citizen

His post was Come Unto Me... his point was that God asks each of us to come to Him with our burdens...

Your questions were sincere. I only hope some bridges have been built that may inspire you to find a church and sit in the pew, to read your Bible, to pray to God in Jesus Name.... to want to know Jesus and to fall in love with Him.

I recognize the validity of cg81's thoughts, and even agree with some of them. And I now offer an apology to him for making this into such a huge thing. I should have simply kept my mouth shut. (Yes, I truly mean that.)

Originally Posted by World Citizen

When you go into a church, why do you feel compelled to tell them you're gay?

I don't. In fact, I haven't done that. Wellllll.....admittedly the story about me, my friend and the pastor telling me to stop telling others I was gay....THAT was true. It actually did happen. But other than that, I've never actually gone into a church and announced I was gay. I was just posting some hypotheticals to illustrate the point I was trying to make. I was trying to convey the message that a church shouldn't post a sign like that, knowing that it's only a half-truth. It's misleading.

Originally Posted by World Citizen

When people go to church they don't go in talking about their struggles and their failures.
That is between them and God.

Maybe. But why should they have to hide things from the people they're supposed to be able to trust and count on for support? Isn't yet another popular Christian belief the notion that the church is a hospital for sinners? Wouldn't you gather around you those people who can offer you the help and support you need? In so doing, wouldn't you need to be open and honest about who you are and your struggles??

Originally Posted by World Citizen

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Albert Einstein

Why did you post that quote? Are you inferring I'm insane or something?

[bchris02]

Originally Posted by aquila

Before I respond, I just want to announce that there is NOTHING in any of my posts that say anything about me engaging in porn.

I apologize, I wasn't accusing you of that, I was simply using that as an example since you mentioned lust.

[june 7th]

Excuse June, (of all people) for even bringing this up, but in terms of cg81's OP, is June the only one who is thinking that there is a vast difference between what Jesus said, who he was, what he did, and....


Mankind's interpretation of it down through the ages?



aquila : Go for the content, not the interpretation, thereof. Because even June suspects that therein lies the peace and validation that you seek...



And which undoubtedly exists.


Take gentle care.

[World Citizen]

Originally Posted by june 7th

Excuse June, (of all people) for even bringing this up, but in terms of cg81's OP, is June the only one who is thinking that there is a vast difference between what Jesus said, who he was, what he did, and....

Mankind's interpretation of it down through the ages?

aquila : Go for the content, not the interpretation, thereof. Because even June suspects that therein lies the peace and validation that you seek...

And which undoubtedly exists.

Take gentle care.

June is so right.

Go to church to worship God.

Keep your eyes off the people...
Churches are full of imperfect human beings - just like you and me!
People will always disappoint us.
I've even begun to see this truth in between the lines when I read the Bible.

The geese aren't a good representation of their creator...

Originally Posted by aquila

Why did you post that quote? Are you inferring I'm insane or something?

Now, I would feel much better if you would have put a funny emoticon with that last statement!

I don't think you're insane.

Wonder what was going on in Einstein's life when he came up with that saying?

[aquila]

Originally Posted by World Citizen

Now, I would feel much better if you would have put a funny emoticon with that last statement!

I don't think you're insane.

*In my best Samantha Stevens imitation*

Wellllllllll. I wasn't sure what you were getting at.