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On second thought, never mind. You guys need to understand something: I don't accept what people in the church say to me anymore. Period. There's no reason to. You all can't get it together and agree on things. So why should I bother listening to any of you?
You'll bend over backwards to tell me how much you love me and how much God accepts me...until you find out who I am. And then suddenly I'm a despicable, abominable waste of flesh. So much for making me feel loved and that there is something to hope for. So much for thinking that maybe people won't snicker about me behind my back in church and go around telling everyone "Ooooooh, don't get too close to him. He's a pervert."
You know, the first church I went to after I got saved had a one-time locally famous flamboyant gay man who had become a Christian. We became friends. And we'd hang out together at his house, playing cards or just sitting and talking. And then the pastor found out. And the next thing I know, BJ was getting called from the pastor telling him to pass on a message to me: Stop telling everyone at the church about my "former life". Apparently the members of the church were getting upset about the fact that I was telling others that I used to be gay. Imagine that....a saved sinner telling others that I used to be something, but was trying to stop being that something. Didn't matter to them. All they could see was that I used to be gay. They'd avoid me in church. The pastor's wife questioned whether I'd be able to have sex (after marriage) with the girl I was engaged to....who eventually broke it off with me.
Yeah, so much for being accepted. Seemed I was damned if I did, and damned if I didn't. Well, you know what? I couldn't care less what you guys think or say anymore. Just carry on with your conversation. Sorry I intruded.
Aquila, I know we have had our run ins before, and I don't want to make the way you already feel any worse but you are taking everything way too personal. I think you should have some conversations privately with World Citizen because she has been through a bunch of similar type of "rejection" experiences and we all need someone to talk to.
That's all she was offering. We are all offering our help and prayers, but then you lash out at us. You have got to settle down a little and realize we're not all out to "get you". There are churches that will help you through your homosexuality, those that realize it has to be dealt with in group situations so you have support. I have no clue what you are going through either, but I know there are Christians here at CD that do know and there are churches that will provide the support you need.
My son attends a church like this so they are out there. You just have to do a little research. You need support from Christians or else you wouldn't be here. But we are also human with real feelings and no one likes to have their head bit off when all they are trying to do is help. You have to start taking on the attitude that WC has that you cannot worry what others think....you have to do what is right for you and to develop your relationship with Jesus Christ.
We all have problems, addictions, demons....whatever you want to call them, and the Bible says that no one sin is greater than another. IT IS HARD to be a Christian, no doubt about it. But don't let your feelings and how human beings treat you sour your relationship with God. It's the most important thing in your life.
So, back to the OP. Sorry, CG. And the Lord said "come unto Me".
Edit to add: I see from your posts that you are not looking for help with your homosexuality, you just want others to say or the Bible to say it's ok. That explains the hostility. Until you repent and are sincere about not living the gay lifestyle, I guess there really is nothing we can say to help. Do not resign yourself to living this way, do everything you can to abstain and get in with a Christian support group. Through God we can overcome. God bless.
Last edited by Ilene Wright; 11-13-2008 at 10:01 PM..
Reason: Just realized something
Aquila, I know we have had our run ins before, and I don't want to make the way you already feel any worse but you are taking everything way too personal. I think you should have some conversations privately with World Citizen because she has been through a bunch of similar type of "rejection" experiences and we all need someone to talk to.
That's all she was offering. We are all offering our help and prayers, but then you lash out at us. You have got to settle down a little and realize we're not all out to "get you". There are churches that will help you through your homosexuality, those that realize it has to be dealt with in group situations so you have support. I have no clue what you are going through either, but I know there are Christians here at CD that do know and there are churches that will provide the support you need.
My son attends a church like this so they are out there. You just have to do a little research. You need support from Christians or else you wouldn't be here. But we are also human with real feelings and no one likes to have their head bit off when all they are trying to do is help. You have to start taking on the attitude that WC has that you cannot worry what others think....you have to do what is right for you and to develop your relationship with Jesus Christ.
We all have problems, addictions, demons....whatever you want to call them, and the Bible says that no one sin is greater than another. IT IS HARD to be a Christian, no doubt about it. But don't let your feelings and how human beings treat you sour your relationship with God. It's the most important thing in your life.
So, back to the OP. Sorry, CG. And the Lord said "come unto Me".
Edit to add: I see from your posts that you are not looking for help with your homosexuality, you just want others to say or the Bible to say it's ok. That explains the hostility. Until you repent and are sincere about not living the gay lifestyle, I guess there really is nothing we can say to help. Do not resign yourself to living this way, do everything you can to abstain and get in with a Christian support group. Through God we can overcome. God bless.
FWIW, I told you guys to just get back to what you were discussing. This isn't about homosexuality, and I don't want someone getting upset with me. So why not pay attention to the final sentence in my last post and acknowledge that?
(Matt. 11:28-30) Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
"Come to me with all your hatred of others, yourself, and even me.
I'm not a believer, so that certainly would imply that I am not a Christian. That certainly means that who am I to comment on any of the above four pages of this thread? June's life isn't centered around the Bible or any religion. But this much June tends to think:
If any god exists, he's not to be found in divisiveness. Divisiveness is just too divisive. (I know that sounds sophmoric, but it's not.) Somehow I'm having a difficult time believing that any God is to be found in separation, or self-alienation. --To say nothing of the fact that time and time again I've read in these threads that a component of what "sin" entails is a separation from God. There's not a shadow of a doubt in my mind that the vast majority of churches in this country would burn June at the stake in the public square if they really knew her. But that's okay. Because part of what June will never fathom is the lack of reconciliation in, the division between the "I Am" of Yahweh, and the "I am" of my own self. Because June has the funny feeling that if God existed, perhaps he might not be quite so quick in separating, dividing the two. Human beings would seem to have no difficulty in doing that, but please don't tell me any "god" would...June's not sure whose judgement that is to make...Isn't there a story in the Bible about the sinner who is in church and the self-righteous man in the same church, both praying to the same God? --And the self righteous man is praying and thanking God that he isn't the other guy? At least she thought there was something to that effect...
Here's the thing: June's not buying the divisiveness part. She's not exactly picking up that divisive "vibe" in the words "Come unto me." She's not exactly hearing in that any caveats as to who can, cannot, should, and should not "come unto him." And the words "I am meek" aren't exactly giving June that divisive vibe either. (But like June said, she's not a Christian, so let's face it, what does June know?)
She knows this much: If there is really, truly a distinction between "I AM" and the implied acceptance of "I am" such that one denies the other, then there's something wrong there...That's not God...
Matt. 11:25-30 At that time Jesus answered and said, "I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Himself.
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
God does not reveal the truth about salvation to the worldly wise because they think they can find God on their own. The babes are those who trustingly accept God's revelation as true. God reveals Himself to us only through the Son. Jesus offers this knowledge of God to all who will believe.
These verses should be memorized for a resource during times when we feel heavy laden and in need of rest.
All are invited to come. Rest from the guilt of sin by justification and from the power of sin by sanctification.
Take My yoke...learn from Me: God's plan to help us cope with life.
I sincerely apologize to you if you misunderstood my purpose. My desire was not to in any way judge or harm you.
I understand more about what you've been through than you might want to believe.
I've witnessed a church reject someone who was sincere on more than one occasion. I was there with them. I've seen it happen. At least one of them will probably never go back to church again. I can't blame her. Another time, I brought a young man to church who went forward for prayer. I watched in horror and disbelief when the pastor literally skipped over him.... refusing to pray for him. Then, there was the time that same pastor chose to preach a whole sermon about a person's particular sin -- staring right at him -- on his first visit to church. He was sitting right next to me on the back pew of the church.
I wish I could say these were the only times that similar things happened in churches - to people that I was with.
I can tell you that I left all of those churches after these experiences. I did not want to be a part of their congregations.
The fact that these things happened doesn't mean that God rejected any of these people....
Those congregations WILL BE judged for their behavior. You can be very sure of that.
"And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."Matthew 18:5-6
I would never send you to anyone that would make you feel bad about yourself. I actually own a video set by Mr. Foster that involves hours of teaching.
From what I've seen, his heart is very kind. Unfortunately, you may find it hard to receive from him because of his past life. Isn't it interesting how we people do that?
I'm sure these other people will address your question about the scriptural basis for cg's statements. I think I addressed it when I pointed out how Jesus picked Matthew, Mark, Luke and John... as well as the other disciples. You can look at the way Jesus dealt with the woman caught in adultery, who the pharisees wanted to stone....
The whole New Testament is full of examples.
God bless you,
WC
Last edited by World Citizen; 11-14-2008 at 07:45 AM..
Come on, Alpha....show me precisely WHERE in the Bible it says SPECIFICALLY that God accepts us as we are.
When someone tells you they accept you just as you are, that implies you don't have to change anything about yourself. So SHOW ME the Bible verse that says God accepts me JUST AS I AM. You guys throw the phrase around so very easily, and I'd like to find out where you get the idea from.
As for the rest of what you wrote, since you're not going to address the introduction of the subject of homosexuality, I won't address the rest of your words. Trust me....I'm not ignoring anything.
BOTH OF YOU: Prove to me that what you're saying isn't Christianese....cutesy feel-good theories based upon your own ideas....or more to the point, the ideas of those who have come before you in the church.
Here's the first one that came to mind, but there are others I will find if you REALLY want to know what the Bible says and you just don't want someone to tell you what you want to hear:
The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin." John 8:3-11
It's all right there in that last quote from Christ, aquila.
"Then neither do I condemn you"=accepting her just as she was
"Go now and leave your life of sin"=change your life
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquila
On second thought, never mind. You guys need to understand something: I don't accept what people in the church say to me anymore. Period. There's no reason to. You all can't get it together and agree on things. So why should I bother listening to any of you?
aquila, read back through this thread. We are all in one accord here. You are the one that can not agree. The rest of us are unified here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquila
You'll bend over backwards to tell me how much you love me and how much God accepts me...until you find out who I am. And then suddenly I'm a despicable, abominable waste of flesh. So much for making me feel loved and that there is something to hope for. So much for thinking that maybe people won't snicker about me behind my back in church and go around telling everyone "Ooooooh, don't get too close to him. He's a pervert."
You know, the first church I went to after I got saved had a one-time locally famous flamboyant gay man who had become a Christian. We became friends. And we'd hang out together at his house, playing cards or just sitting and talking. And then the pastor found out. And the next thing I know, BJ was getting called from the pastor telling him to pass on a message to me: Stop telling everyone at the church about my "former life". Apparently the members of the church were getting upset about the fact that I was telling others that I used to be gay. Imagine that....a saved sinner telling others that I used to be something, but was trying to stop being that something. Didn't matter to them. All they could see was that I used to be gay. They'd avoid me in church. The pastor's wife questioned whether I'd be able to have sex (after marriage) with the girl I was engaged to....who eventually broke it off with me.
Yeah, so much for being accepted. Seemed I was damned if I did, and damned if I didn't. Well, you know what? I couldn't care less what you guys think or say anymore. Just carry on with your conversation. Sorry I intruded.
I don't think you are a waste of flesh. That's so nasty. If anyone ever said that, the love of Christ is not in them. Christ created us ALL and died for us ALL and if there for us ALL if we trust in Him and follow Him.
What you described at your church doesn't sound like something to run from THE church for but certainly is something to run form THAT church for.
At any rate, I do not know what your current lifestyle is but I wish you the best and will pray for you.
Let me know if you'd genuinely like more scripture on Christ accepting us and us allowing Him to change who we are from the inside out.
It's not an either/or (between acceptance and change) it's a 'both'.
Christ loves sinners and came specifically to heal the sick, but He did not come to set us free and have us sacrifice Him over and over and over again. At times, I feel like that's exactly what I do too, though. So, if the enemy is telling you are alone and no one 'gets you', you've been snookered by the father of lies.
We're in this together and if you're a blood-bought believer, you and I are brothers. And I mean that with everything I have.
Aquila, best of luck to you..I neither condemn you nor judge you..Nor would I try to change you to be like me I have a feeling you are a pretty good guy just the way you were born..
I agree Jesus will never turn away any soul. But I have problems accepting that He will take away all their burdens.
If we give them to Him, He will help us carry them, as Alpha mentioned. We will continue to come to Him throughout our life, but He will always be there.
Quote:
Remember, a verse that says He accepts you as you are....not a personal interpretation of a verse.
How are we supposed to come to Jesus? As we aren't? As somebody else? As someone who is pretending to be what they are not?
No, coming as we are simply means that we cannot handle everything on our own, and we can feel free to come to Jesus with everything. He will not turn anyone away who comes in this manner.
We like to hold on to some things... we all do. We don't want to give everything to Him. We don't have faith that He can do anything about it... or that He is even interested.
"Coming as we are" also means that we are open to Jesus. Jesus is all about change. We sometimes seem to think that we need to change before we come to Jesus.. but this will not work. We need to "come as we are" and Jesus will change us. If we truly "come as we are" we will not "leave as we were". "Coming as we are" does not mean that we will just come in any way, holding some things back for ourselves, and expect Jesus to magically make our life better... no, in that way we are not coming honestly, and so are not coming "as we really are". We all need change, and if we are not interested in that, Jesus really cannot help us.
But if we truly, truly come "as we are" and lay it all down at Jesus' feet, we will find out that "His yoke is easy and His burden is light".
After being a member of a church for many years, I left after I was given the choice to conform or leave.
Getting the cold shoulder from other people will never equate to being rejected by God.
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Sorry, CG. And the Lord said "come unto Me".
I have a feeling you are a pretty good guy just the way you were born..
