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Your correct we are buried into his death but don't come into contact with the blood. Being buried into the death with baptism shows that the old you is dying as Christ did and rising like he did. Not contacting the blood. That is done with the Holy Ghost in a spiritual way.
PS...what is the difference between "Into His death" and "coming into contact with His shed blood"?
This is a subject of growing debate as folks stumble on a grossly and somewhat ignored Acts 2:38-39 by many christian churches,
read repeatedly, but not applied, but instead done by (what? what? the what?) the NAME of the Father Son and Holy Spirit (clearly TITLES ,,not names) The name clearly understood by the disciples..Jesus Christ, but if 3 used your INCLUDING Jesus !!Helllooo doctrine!
Just forget Peter's instructions. Heck! Jesus name ain't that important right? NO! ....WRONG! "Who ever believes in Him shall not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the NAME of Gods one and only Son". "Holy Father protect them by the power of your NAME ---The NAME you gave me so that they may be one as we are one." "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" To those who believe in His NAME He gave the right to become children of God.""Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the NAME if Jesus."(Sanhedrin)"And I gave Him the NAME that is above EVERY "Name that at the name of Jesus" I come in my Fathers Name" Under no other NAME will you receive salvation.
Well these are a drop in the bucket referrences to the significance of the name (Jesus Christ His full
name. The Pentecostals,Apostolics and I imagine other christian folks may be on to something. I personally have agonized over this for 20 years now nearly daily as my church (evangelical) baptizes in the triune formula and you have too wonder if it's just semantics or is Acts 2:38 the downplaced most important scripture in all of history and blinders are on ? It's always countered by "it doesn't matter name schmame Das get over it!! " It's all the same Triune /Jesus Christ .....go on with your life!!
Last edited by DASULAR17; 12-14-2009 at 12:52 AM..
Reason: typos
I never said the thief wasn't saved. We do not know if he was ever baptized, Jesus forgave sins with his Word while on earth, and Jesus had not died yet to bring the new covenant into existance. The thief was still under the old covenant, we are not. Big difference.
Absolutely! I'd like to say that I do not believe the water of baptism saves us, but Jesus' shed blood. I believe we come into contact with that shed blood when we are baptized (Rom 6:3). I also believe that in addition to faith, repenting, confessing, and being baptized, we must also remain faithful.
As for baptism though...
Let's go back to the day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:36-38) When the people asked, what must we do? Did Peter say, just have faith? No, he said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Or how about all of these that talk about baptism...
Who is saved? Mark 16:16...He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
What saves us? I Peter 3:21...The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
How do we call on the name of the Lord? Acts 22:16...And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
How do we come into contact with Jesus' death, and walk in a new life? Romans 6:3-4...Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
How do we receive remission of sins? Acts 22:16...And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
See also Acts 2:38 above.
How do we join the one body of Christ? 1 Cor 12:12-13...For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
How do we put on Christ? Gal 3:27...For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Seems to me the Bible teaches that baptism is more than just a "show" for others.
No it isn't three beings. Want proof? - Is the Father Holy? Is the Father Spirit? If so then He is the Holy Spirit.
I absolutely agree....doctrine treats the Holy Spirit as a separate entity....it is the spirit of GOD...the same spirit Jesus was annointed with...the same spirit we are annointed with.
I absolutely agree....doctrine treats the Holy Spirit as a separate entity....it is the spirit of GOD...the same spirit Jesus was annointed with...the same spirit we are annointed with.
Seperate, but yet one.
Genesis 1: 26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God createdhe him; male and female created he them.
God spoke in the plural sense for the act of creation and then God in the singular perform the act of creation.
Jesus prayed to the Father and both God the Father and the Holy Spirit testified of the Son at His water baptism.
Matthew 3: 16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mark 1:10And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: 11And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
John 1: 32And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Oneness doctrine is a false doctrine because it exhorts carrrying on that relationship with God through the Holy Spirit which Jesus did not give an invitation to go to nor did God the Father presented the Holy Spirit as the door to go to in relating to Him.
Oneness doctrine in practise is of the rudiment in the world in how they seek after spirits and worship the spirit.
Trinity doctrine makes the error of worshipping all three when the scriptures testifies that the Holy Spirit is God also, but sent to dwell in us to testify and to glorify Jesus Christ Whose name is above every other name.
Blurring the three Persons of the Godhead into One as if there is only One Person and not three in One.... turns christianity into spirituanity.
The risen Saviour at the right hand of God the Father as being our only Mediator between God and man is the first love and Bridegroom to be going to in order to have that relationship with God the Father for it is by the Son that we have access to the Father to call Him Father. By getting to know the Son, you are getting to know the Father as they are One in that sense but still seperate in another sense in that no one can come to the Father except through the Son.... not by coming to the Spirit for that is after the rudiment in the world and God would call those out of the world through a personal reconciled relationship with Him through the Son to stand apart from the world as a witness of the Good News to man.
John 14: 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
It's important to remember that Mathew was writing his gospel to a Jewish audience while Dr. Luke the author of "Acts" was writing to Theophilus and company who were Gentile.
The Jews have a very high regard for The Name of God based on the 3rd commandment
"“You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain."
The early church held the name of Jesus in the same high regard as the Tetragramaton. (Jehovah or Yahweh)
That's why in Mathew's gospel (Mat 28:19) it's all about " the name" of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
But Luke uses the name of the Lord Jesus when referring to baptism.
But was it worth reinventing the wheel and building a whole new organization based on how people are baptized?
Or does it really matter to God?
If it did wouldn't those groups have allot more fruit of the spirit?
Wouldn't there be a greater revival in Oneness groups (aka Jesus Only) than any place else?
So where is The United Pentecostal Church today?
How much influence do they have?
Or are they just treading water with their pews filled with flaky people?
This is "the fruit" of breaking off from the big 20th century revivals over how people are baptized.
A broken body, division, and confusion.
No thank you!
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