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As Church Age believers we should want to know about the final event which brings the dispensation of the Church to a close. Otherwise known as the resurrection of the Church, the rapture occurs immediately before the tribulation begins for Israel and seven years before the second advent of Christ. For the edification of whoever may be interested I have included a link to the Gracedoctrine.org website. It delineates between and gives the scripture for the separate events of the rapture and the second advent. It also gives the orders of the first resurrection which is for believers only, and which occurs in four different stages.
Therefore, there are four Companies in the Battalion that will pass in review: Alpha Company - The Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 1:9) Bravo Company - Church Age believers at the end of the Church Age (Rapture) Charlie Company - Old Testament and Tribulational saints who have died at the end of the Tribulation Delta Company - Millennial saints at the end of the Millennium.
That is the order of resurrection.
Charlie company seems to be out of order:
The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.
The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.
No. Matthew 27:52 is not talking about resurrection. In verse 53, the resurrection of Christ is mentioned. But verse 52 is talking about people resuscitated in their same mortal bodies of corruption, only to die again at a later date. Just as Lazarus was resuscitated by Christ only to die again.
Resurrection means that the body is raised into a state of immortality never to die again.
The resuscitation of the saints was one of the miracles that occurred at the moment of Christs death. Other miracles that occured at the same time included the tearing of the veil in the temple. Matt. 27:51 tells us that the veil was torn from top to bottom. Now the veil was huge and thick and could not be torn by human hands. The veil was torn by God Himself. The significance of the veil being torn was that the barrier that stood between God and man was now removed by the work of Christ on the cross and man was now free to approach God through faith in Christ.
The saints being resuscitated were just one of the signs that something very miraculous and very important had just taken place.
Notice that many, but not every saint was raised. In comparison to all the old testament saints who had ever died, only a relatively few saints were resuscitated.
They all died again at a later time and are awaiting what will be their resurrection along with all of the Old Testament saints, as 'Charley Company' at the end of the tribulation. This of course means that when their bodies are raised, their souls and human spirits which are now in Heaven, will enter into their resurrected bodies.
As Church Age believers we should want to know about the final event which brings the dispensation of the Church to a close. Otherwise known as the resurrection of the Church, the rapture occurs immediately before the tribulation begins for Israel and seven years before the second advent of Christ.
I don't want to be the one. Who has the heart to break the bad news to Mike?
I don't want to be the one. Who has the heart to break the bad news to Mike?
Let those who are intellectually honest with themselves study the material at the website and once you understand clearly what is so plainly obvious, then either believe it or don't believe it. But at least study it.
No. Matthew 27:52 is not talking about resurrection.
"The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many."
Yet Jesus was still on the cross but it states he had resurrected already right? Do you also think "HIS resurrection" means he too was raised in the mortal and appeared to many later? Remember, his body was in plain view on the cross until later that night. vs 57-60
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In verse 53, the resurrection of Christ is mentioned. But verse 52 is talking about people resuscitated in their same mortal bodies of corruption, only to die again at a later date. Just as Lazarus was resuscitated by Christ only to die again.
Seriously? In my neck of the woods, dead bodies reanimated are called zombies. I would think more than "many" would have seen that! Perhaps you are mistaken here? Who are the saints? Saints meaning those who serve God? And how many of these zombies are there that were saints? This convinces people that Jesus is the Son of God?
You agree they are the elders/saints of the OT? The Hebrew Bible has 24 books... Isn't that interesting? Rev. 5:6-9 "6Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. 8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation."
Jesus (Lamb) is slain (on the cross) and 24 elders (saints) are there.
Interesting. If you look closely at the parts of that passage in bold... Jesus takes the scroll from God and seems to have taken over (1000 year reign). HIS BLOOD purchases men, ALL men.
Only thing left to do according to End Times Prophecy is to let Satan loose after the reign so he can surround the "Beloved City." Second resurrection of all the rest of the dead. (Rev 20:5). Judgment of those resurrected and death and hades into the lake of fire. Then we see the New heavens and New earth, New "Beloved City" and temple in chapter 21.
Jesus predicted the fall of the city and the temple in the gospels (Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21) which occurred in 70AD. Also, you can see Matt. 23 has Jesus crying out woe! to the pharisees, leaders at the temple... promising to destroy them for the death of the prophets calling them serpents. And promising that all this would happen within THAT generation! (Matt 23: 36). Luke 22:53 states it was their hour and the power of darkness... So they were surrounded in agony for 3 or so years while the Roman army desecrated the temple. For more info read this article...The Jewish War and the Destruction of Jerusalem
So, what is the new temple? Or rather, who? 1 Cor. 3:16-17 clearly states that WE are the temple..the body is the temple. (see also 2 Cor. 6:16)
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Resurrection means that the body is raised into a state of immortality never to die again.
The resuscitation of the saints was one of the miracles that occurred at the moment of Christs death. Other miracles that occured at the same time included the tearing of the veil in the temple. Matt. 27:51 tells us that the veil was torn from top to bottom. Now the veil was huge and thick and could not be torn by human hands. The veil was torn by God Himself. The significance of the veil being torn was that the barrier that stood between God and man was now removed by the work of Christ on the cross and man was now free to approach God through faith in Christ.
The saints being resuscitated were just one of the signs that something very miraculous and very important had just taken place.
Notice that many, but not every saint was raised. In comparison to all the old testament saints who had ever died, only a relatively few saints were resuscitated.
Actually the word many can mean great as in great multitude... same word.
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They all died again at a later time and are awaiting what will be their resurrection along with all of the Old Testament saints, as 'Charley Company' at the end of the tribulation. This of course means that when their bodies are raised, their souls and human spirits which are now in Heaven, will enter into their resurrected bodies.
They were raised and lived again till they died? Think some recording of that would have taken place! Or like they were raised (zombies) then just died again quickly after people saw them? If Moses, Elijah and Enoch were zombies that would have stuck out in my mind.
I already covered most of what you perceive to be the end times prophecy and showed it fulfilled then. Only thing left is to resurrect the dead, judge them and throw Death and Hades in the lake of fire... And what earthly sign was there that this did or didn't already happen? No need for one. It is spiritual and God is all in all.
Eph. 4:4-7 There is one body and one Spirit-just as you were called to one hope when you were called- one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it.
"The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many."
Yet Jesus was still on the cross but it states he had resurrected already right? Do you also think "HIS resurrection" means he too was raised in the mortal and appeared to many later? Remember, his body was in plain view on the cross until later that night. vs 57-60
Your comprehension skills could use some improving. Matthew 27:53 jumps ahead to after His resurrection. 53) 'and coming out of the tombs AFTER HIS RESURRECTION they entered the holy city and appeared to many.' Verse 54 then shifts back to when Christ is still on the cross and has just dismissed His spirit from His body.
As I said, resurrection means the body is raised into a state of immortality and not subject to death. Jesus was resurrected. But resuscitation on the other hand is bringing someone back in their same mortal body which is subject to physical death again. The saints that were raised from their graves were merely resuscitated and later died again.
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Seriously? In my neck of the woods, dead bodies reanimated are called zombies. I would think more than "many" would have seen that! Perhaps you are mistaken here? Who are the saints? Saints meaning those who serve God? And how many of these zombies are there that were saints? This convinces people that Jesus is the Son of God?
With that statement you also imply that Lazarus was a zombie when Christ resuscitated him. (John 11.)
It is very obvious by your answers in your posts that you believe very little of the Bible.
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You agree they are the elders/saints of the OT? The Hebrew Bible has 24 books... Isn't that interesting? Rev. 5:6-9 "6Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. 8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation."
Jesus (Lamb) is slain (on the cross) and 24 elders (saints) are there.
Interesting. If you look closely at the parts of that passage in bold... Jesus takes the scroll from God and seems to have taken over (1000 year reign). HIS BLOOD purchases men, ALL men.
Christ died for all men. But only those who make the decision to believe in Him are saved. Verse after verse in the Bible makes that clear.
Also, anyone who dies before reaching the age of accountability is automatically saved because of the work of Christ on the cross. And so, there will be people from every tribe and language and people and nation who are saved. But not all people.
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Only thing left to do according to End Times Prophecy is to let Satan loose after the reign so he can surround the "Beloved City." Second resurrection of all the rest of the dead. (Rev 20:5). Judgment of those resurrected and death and hades into the lake of fire. Then we see the New heavens and New earth, New "Beloved City" and temple in chapter 21.
Jesus predicted the fall of the city and the temple in the gospels (Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21) which occurred in 70AD. Also, you can see Matt. 23 has Jesus crying out woe! to the pharisees, leaders at the temple... promising to destroy them for the death of the prophets calling them serpents. And promising that all this would happen within THAT generation! (Matt 23: 36). Luke 22:53 states it was their hour and the power of darkness... So they were surrounded in agony for 3 or so years while the Roman army desecrated the temple. For more info read this article...The Jewish War and the Destruction of Jerusalem
So, what is the new temple? Or rather, who? 1 Cor. 3:16-17 clearly states that WE are the temple..the body is the temple. (see also 2 Cor. 6:16)
The Jewish temple will be rebuilt in the future. There is talk right now in Israel about when that might happen.
The body of the believer is a temple. Two entirely different things are being talked about here. The Bible is to be approached from a dispensational standpoint.
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Actually the word many can mean great as in great multitude... same word.
They were raised and lived again till they died? Think some recording of that would have taken place! Or like they were raised (zombies) then just died again quickly after people saw them? If Moses, Elijah and Enoch were zombies that would have stuck out in my mind.
I already covered most of what you perceive to be the end times prophecy and showed it fulfilled then. Only thing left is to resurrect the dead, judge them and throw Death and Hades in the lake of fire... And what earthly sign was there that this did or didn't already happen? No need for one. It is spiritual and God is all in all.
All you have shown, as is the case with most, is ignorance of the Scriptures, and the inability to rightly divide the word of truth.
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Eph. 4:4-7 There is one body and one Spirit-just as you were called to one hope when you were called- one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it.
This is addressed to the Church. The one body is the Church. Every believer in the dispensation of the Church is a part of the body of Christ and is called the Church. (No, not the Catholic Church.) The one Spirit is God the Holy Spirit who indwells the body of every Church Age believer. God the Father is the Father of all Church Age believers. He is not the Father of those who do not believe in Christ. You must be born again into the family of God or else you belong to Satans kingdom. The universal brotherhood of man is a Satanic deception. 'Through all and in all' is in reference to those who are born into the body of Christ. Believers only. Not unbelievers. Universalists have a gross misunderstanding of what 'over all and through all and in all' means.
You know this is one of those subjects that I am open to look into all possible interpretation. The problem here is that the theory of the rapture of the church is not clearly stated or given in the bible, this interpretation is by implications. Rapture is one of many possible interpretations on what what the bible is telling us about the church of the last days. I mean when you really just think and work with just the givens in scripture then you see that there are infact many other possible interpretations here. For example the other day I found myself working with the possibility of a time just before the end when church age will come to an end, that is true christianity will be completely lost, just like with the generation after Joshua which in the bible we are told did not know God, so too it is possible that there will come a time when there will be a generation that does not know Christ. But that is just a theory I am working with. Any how my point is, unless the bible is most specific on a subject we should keep room for other possible interpretations. To me that is wisdom.
we should keep room for other possible interpretations. To me that is wisdom.
How about this interpretation: that it was the product of four minds: an Irish girl who had a bizarre nightmare, who then told her pastor about it, who then told the nightmare to John Darby, who then passed it on to his good buddy, Cyrus Scofield, who then kept publicizing this phantasmagoric in his bible footnotes, until it morphed into the biggest Christian money-making machine ever used by televangelists outside of Malachi, seed-faith, and the tithe!
Your comprehension skills could use some improving. Matthew 27:53 jumps ahead to after His resurrection. 53) 'and coming out of the tombs AFTER HIS RESURRECTION they entered the holy city and appeared to many.' Verse 54 then shifts back to when Christ is still on the cross and has just dismissed His spirit from His body.
There is no need for this "jump" or "shift." You are inferring something that does not have indication in the scripture.
Matthew 27:50-54 (Young's Literal Translation) 50And Jesus having again cried with a great voice, yielded the spirit;
51and lo, the vail of the sanctuary was rent in two from top unto bottom, and the earth did quake, and the rocks were rent,
52and the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who have fallen asleep, arose,
53and having come forth out of the tombs after his rising, they went into the holy city, and appeared to many.
54And the centurion, and those with him watching Jesus, having seen the earthquake, and the things that were done, were exceedingly afraid, saying, `Truly this was God's Son.'
vs 51 and 52 state it as it occurred in sequence, the 53 clarifies it was his "yielded the spirit" that was his rising.. His body was still on the cross. Not much reason to deny this, yet you do.
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As I said, resurrection means the body is raised into a state of immortality and not subject to death. Jesus was resurrected. But resuscitation on the other hand is bringing someone back in their same mortal body which is subject to physical death again. The saints that were raised from their graves were merely resuscitated and later died again.
Just because Jesus' Body was not there in the tomb does not make this verse nor the resurrection any less true. You are saying the saints from the OT- rotten dead piles of bones were resuscitated...not those who died recently and whose bodies were still intact.
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With that statement you also imply that Lazarus was a zombie when Christ resuscitated him. (John 11.)
It is very obvious by your answers in your posts that you believe very little of the Bible.
Lazarus was dead 3 days. In the hospital when someone dies and is resuscitated that is not considered a zombie. There body has not "returned to dirt." The OT saints had decayed. Resuscitating them could be described as zombies. They would need new bodies to inhabit or just walk around as bones and rotten flesh, or dirt.
It seems obvious to me that you believe much more than the bible.
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Christ died for all men. But only those who make the decision to believe in Him are saved. Verse after verse in the Bible makes that clear.
Also, anyone who dies before reaching the age of accountability is automatically saved because of the work of Christ on the cross. And so, there will be people from every tribe and language and people and nation who are saved. But not all people.
Not gonna go there! Need to use another thread. "Age of accountability" is not taught in scripture it is a man-made concept used to reconcile inconsistencies within doctrine due to erroneous interpretation.
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The Jewish temple will be rebuilt in the future. There is talk right now in Israel about when that might happen.
The Jews would love to rebuild it. And many have said that it would still be "on the site of the old" if it were built to the side of the Dome.. so either the Dome will be destroyed or the original temple is moved for this to work.. either way, don't hold your breath!
Regardless, what would be the purpose, in your mind, according to the scripture for a new temple to be rebuilt in the future?
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The body of the believer is a temple. Two entirely different things are being talked about here. The Bible is to be approached from a dispensational standpoint.
You readily admit that you interpret things through the dispensationalist thought. Yet this is not a biblical concept, it is a man-made concept to deal with inconsistencies in the view of the bible due to erroneous interpretation.
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All you have shown, as is the case with most, is ignorance of the Scriptures, and the inability to rightly divide the word of truth.
Ok.. I would say the same to you so I guess we are at an impasse.
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This is addressed to the Church. The one body is the Church. Every believer in the dispensation of the Church is a part of the body of Christ and is called the Church. (No, not the Catholic Church.) The one Spirit is God the Holy Spirit who indwells the body of every Church Age believer. God the Father is the Father of all Church Age believers. He is not the Father of those who do not believe in Christ. You must be born again into the family of God or else you belong to Satans kingdom. The universal brotherhood of man is a Satanic deception. 'Through all and in all' is in reference to those who are born into the body of Christ. Believers only. Not unbelievers. Universalists have a gross misunderstanding of what 'over all and through all and in all' means.
I think the verse is pretty clear. No need to use any understanding of it whatsoever. You deny what the scripture says and add satan, believers, and not unbelievers into it.
Must be hard to reconcile ones beliefs when they have to call upon the doctrine and thoughts of others for interpretation. I feel for you. An open mind is characterized by searching not simply accepting. Simply accepting a belief is close-minded by definition.
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