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Those who deny the free will of man in accepting Christ for salvation, and think that God imposes His sovereignty over man's free will in making that choice, often use two verses to prove their case, not realizing that they misunderstand the verses they are using.
(1) One of these verses is John 6:44 ''No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent me draws him...'' But here is how God draws man.
2 Thess. 2:14 ''And it was for this He called you through our Gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord.
Romans 10:17 So faith (in Christ-the decision to believe in Christ) comes by hearing (the Gospel), and hearing by the word of Christ.
God draws man through the Gospel. But man is free to either accept or reject the Gospel.
(2) Another verse used to prove that man doesn't have free will is John 15:16 ''You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit...''
Those who believe that God chooses some to be saved and others to be condemned, use this verse to back up their argument. But this verse is specifically addressed to the disciples of Christ that He had chosen to be the Apostles. This verse is not about salvation at all, but Jesus is simply telling the disciples that they had been chosen by Him to be His disciples.
Cross reference John 15:16 with John 6:70 ''Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?''
And cross reference with John 13:18 ''I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'HE WHO EATS MY BREAD HAS LIFTED UP HIS HEEL AGAINST ME.'
From the Peoples New Testament Commentary; concernng John 15:16.,
''Ye have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you. Each one of the eleven apostles present had been chosen, called by the Lord, from among His disciples. They did not choose him, but he them, in order that they might bring forth abundant fruit in the conversion of the world.''
Now consider Romans 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined...and whom He predestined, these He also called (through the Gospel--2 Thess. 2:14) and whom He called, these He also justified, and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
God foreknew who would choose to believe in Christ, and it is they, that God predestined, and called (He knew who would respond to the Gospel.)
It is by God's own will, that the Sovereignty of God co-exists with the free will of man. God does not force a person to believe in Christ.
This concept has always puzzled me. God's sorry excuse for free will....he has a gun to our head (hell) and gives us the option of chosing to believe in him or burn in hell. Some choice. Being forced through fear is not free will.
This concept has always puzzled me. God's sorry excuse for free will....he has a gun to our head (hell) and gives us the option of chosing to believe in him or burn in hell. Some choice. Being forced through fear is not free will.
AS well it should puzzle you. How 'bout this? Genesis 3 reveals that God agrees with the serpent in that man has become "as one of us" by eating the forbidden fruit. "Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. "
There is just so much more than meets the eye to the whole story. AND - notice hell is never threatened in Gen. 3 either.
The entire scenario is an obvious setup so that we could have this valley of the shadow of death experience (oh Joy, right?). But remember Genesis also tells us that it is the breath of God within us sustaining life and in fact is our life. Adam is called the Son of God just as Jesus is. Luke 3:38 "Adam the son of God".
Theologians explain all this away somehow to form their orthodoxy but none of it holds water.
Those who deny the free will of man in accepting Christ for salvation, and think that God imposes His sovereignty over man's free will in making that choice, often use two verses to prove their case, not realizing that they misunderstand the verses they are using.
(1) One of these verses is John 6:44 ''No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent me draws him...'' But here is how God draws man.
2 Thess. 2:14 ''And it was for this He called you through our Gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord.
Romans 10:17 So faith (in Christ-the decision to believe in Christ) comes by hearing (the Gospel), and hearing by the word of Christ.
God draws man through the Gospel. But man is free to either accept or reject the Gospel.
(2) Another verse used to prove that man doesn't have free will is John 15:16 ''You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit...''
Those who believe that God chooses some to be saved and others to be condemned, use this verse to back up their argument. But this verse is specifically addressed to the disciples of Christ that He had chosen to be the Apostles. This verse is not about salvation at all, but Jesus is simply telling the disciples that they had been chosen by Him to be His disciples.
Cross reference John 15:16 with John 6:70 ''Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?''
And cross reference with John 13:18 ''I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'HE WHO EATS MY BREAD HAS LIFTED UP HIS HEEL AGAINST ME.'
From the Peoples New Testament Commentary; concernng John 15:16.,
''Ye have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you. Each one of the eleven apostles present had been chosen, called by the Lord, from among His disciples. They did not choose him, but he them, in order that they might bring forth abundant fruit in the conversion of the world.''
Now consider Romans 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined...and whom He predestined, these He also called (through the Gospel--2 Thess. 2:14) and whom He called, these He also justified, and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
God foreknew who would choose to believe in Christ, and it is they, that God predestined, and called (He knew who would respond to the Gospel.)
It is by God's own will, that the Sovereignty of God co-exists with the free will of man. God does not force a person to believe in Christ.
The "illusion" of free will...will keep you blind to the true Sovereignty and plan of God.
Acts 16:14 A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.
This is not a difficult concept to understand....God had to open her heart, give her a new heart, regnerate her before she could respond to the Gospel. Give God credit where credit it due and quit pretending that your salvation is your work...it is Gods work and Gods work alone.
AS well it should puzzle you. How 'bout this? Genesis 3 reveals that God agrees with the serpent in that man has become "as one of us" by eating the forbidden fruit. "Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. "
There is just so much more than meets the eye to the whole story. AND - notice hell is never threatened in Gen. 3 either.
The entire scenario is an obvious setup so that we could have this valley of the shadow of death experience (oh Joy, right?). But remember Genesis also tells us that it is the breath of God within us sustaining life and in fact is our life. Adam is called the Son of God just as Jesus is. Luke 3:38 "Adam the son of God".
Theologians explain all this away somehow to form their orthodoxy but none of it holds water.
Yes and when you get into that whole "man has become like one of us, to know good and evil" garbage you have to ask yourself....WHAT EVIL?! If Adam and Eve were the only people alive then what evil was there?! There was no adultery, no murder, no nothing....so if there were a bunch more people and Eve NEVER ate the fruit it would have been OKAY to be having sex with everyone and everything just because they didn't know it was wrong?! What?!
Yes and when you get into that whole "man has become like one of us, to know good and evil" garbage you have to ask yourself....WHAT EVIL?! If Adam and Eve were the only people alive then what evil was there?! There was no adultery, no murder, no nothing....so if there were a bunch more people and Eve NEVER ate the fruit it would have been OKAY to be having sex with everyone and everything just because they didn't know it was wrong?! What?!
The ultimate evil.....the willingness to disobey God/ reject Him.
Yes and when you get into that whole "man has become like one of us, to know good and evil" garbage you have to ask yourself....WHAT EVIL?! If Adam and Eve were the only people alive then what evil was there?! There was no adultery, no murder, no nothing....so if there were a bunch more people and Eve NEVER ate the fruit it would have been OKAY to be having sex with everyone and everything just because they didn't know it was wrong?! What?!
Satan is the author of evil. When Lucifer rebelled against God and convinced one third of the angels to rebel with him, evil came into existence. This happened at some point before the creation of man. It was Satans goal to get Adam and the woman to disobey God by eating from the tree that they had been commanded not to eat of. When they did eat, Satan thought he had won his case against God, but the disobedience of Adam simply brought about the next phase in God's plan, which had been planned from eternity past.
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Some choice. Being forced through fear is not free will.
). But remember Genesis also tells us that it is the breath of God within us sustaining life and in fact is our life. Adam is called the Son of God just as Jesus is. Luke 3:38 "Adam the son of God". 
