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(This is a theological debate so please use theology, leave the politics home)
Is abortion wrong or right in the eyes of God? even under the horrible cases of rape, incest etc.... Please use scripture to support your answer not personal opinion.
Whatever God thinks about it ... If eternal torture is true, then, it is best for the babies ...
Whatever God thinks about it ... If eternal torture is true, then, it is best for the babies ...
Of course - I point that out to my many ET believing friends and they generally respond "what a terrible thing to say" or something to that effect.
I respond "But is it true? If ALL babies go to heaven aren't the odds good that many would not be saved - since 'few there be who find it?'".
After thinking they generally say "Well, it may be true - but I don't look at it that way".
(PS - yes spin - I know. You believe that there are evil wicked lying sinning infants and pre-borns who are going to 'hell' - you don't need to reiterate)
Think about it! If he is so worried about the unborn then why did he feel the need to kill the unborn Samaritans just because their parents worshiped another god?
Hosea 13:16
Samaria shall become desolate for she hath rebelled against her god. They shall fall by the sword: their children shall be dashed in pieces, their women with child shall be ripped up.
I think it is a valid argument. Some of you will say that god can do whatever the heck he wants when he get pithed off. Well he is supposed to be our shining example isn't he?
It's a description of what would happen with a mix of warning. (My view of the Bible does not entirely fit Orthodox Protestantism though as I'm not an Orthodox Protestant or any kind of Protestant)
If I went back to 1930 and said "Children will starve to death because of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act" that might be true, based on some theories of the Great Depression, but it wouldn't mean I'm commanding the death of children because I'm so into free-trade. It's just descriptive. Or if I went to the Weimar and told them some things they were doing would lead to "Jewish children yet unborn dying in agony", that's not a defense of abortion or killing Jews.
"If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
If it isn't talking about a miscarriage resulting in the loss of the child then logically the verse means:
If you hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth to a fine baby boy or girl then you get fined (for hitting a woman)
However, if you hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth to a fine baby boy or girl but the woman is injured then you die.
It makes zero sense in the context of the passage to assume that the woman being pregnant has anything to do with the story (using the logic I put forth).
The authors could have easily stated:
You hit a woman and she is ok then you get fined.. you hit a woman and she is injured you die.
As you can see the logic is flawed.
The scripture CLEARLY is stating that if you hit a woman and she miscarriages but the woman isn't injured as a result of the miscarriage then you pay a fine (again no thought to the fetus).
However if the woman miscarries as a result of being hit and she is injured through the process of the miscarriage then big time wrong (again no thought to the fetus).
What is critical is is the woman injured as a result of the miscarriage. That is fundamental to the passage.
Again.. JMO
In my opinion, I see the total opposite of what you're saying.
"If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined"
I read, If a woman is hit, and she gives birth prematurely, and everything is fine, the offender is fined.
"But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."
If there is serious injury, the offender must pay for whatever the injury is. If the woman loses the baby (miscarriage) you take life for life.
So, this verse is actually telling you that if you end up aborting a baby from your actions, you must pay with your life.
Pretty clear to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1
We discussed this before in my house. I would NOT force my 13 year old daughter to give birth to a baby that was the product of a rape. Just as I would not give birth to a baby that way either. Luckily there is the morning after pill now. Take it after the rape and you'll never know if you were pregnant or not.
The morning after pill doesn't do a thing if you are already pregnant. It just stops you from getting pregnant. I have two daughters. If either was raped, they'd be taking that pill ASAP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePR
unborn, meaning they aren't alive.
Obviously you aren't a woman. Just because a baby is not born yet does not mean they are not alive. I have never heard anyone claim a baby still in the womb is not alive.
We just found out Friday night that my Aunt Linda's (by marriage) niece found out she has stage 4 cancer. She is also 18 weeks pregnant. They want her to abort. They say chemo will kill the baby anyway.
She's stage 4, she's going to die soon anyway. Chemo will kill the baby anyway. So why should she take it upon herself to kill it? Then she'll live with that for the rest of her days. She's already seen an ultrasound and knows it's a boy. Obviously she's heartbroken. I don't know yet what she'll decide to do.
I hope I would have enough faith in God to let Him take care of the both of us. I would probably opt out of chemo, and let nature take its course, hoping I may live long enough to give birth to the baby.
Very sad. Please pray for her.
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