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Rev 22 is pretty strict about Heaven my friends...believe it or not, there are those that are unsaved outside of it...but alas, many have failed in accepting that.
In my opinion your understanding of what is symbolic and what is literal is completely askew and in favor of eternal damnation. You want to believe in eternal damnation, for of whatever reasons, so you choose to see what is symbolic as literal and vice versa. In my opinion the people that will be hurt the most by the outrageous beliefs which you and others like you espouse will be all of you who cling to it. As it is written, you will be judged in the manner that you judge.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 11-24-2009 at 10:37 AM..
Matthew 16 states unequivocally that Jesus made Peter the head of His Church. Scripture SAYS SO. Doesn't matter if you don't believe it or not. You wouldn't survive without your predictable protestant revisionist history and deliberate refusal to accept certain parts of scripture. You can tell me about all this anecdotal evidence that Paul was head, but Matthew 16 says otherwise. Denial of this is just obstinate ignorance. Keep interpreting the Bible so that it agrees with you. Good luck with that.
I disagree wholeheartedly ... The scripture says that Jesus called Him peter(Petra), because he said Jesus was messiah ... And it is the fact the is the messiah that he will build his church on. You believe a lie ...
Jesus is the rock, he is the cap stone made the corner stone, he is the stumbling block of Israel, he is the rock cut out of the mountain without hands and cast at the feet of the colossus of Nebuchadnezzar's dream .. Christ is the rock on which we build our house and on which we rest our faith. Peter was merely a man like you and I and he was less the the apostle Paul in authority. He never rebuked Paul, but he stood rebuke by Paul for sinning twice, and once after God had already told him not to do it. And he denied Christ three times ... He was not the first Pope.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 11-24-2009 at 10:43 AM..
What part of "all these things must occur" do you not understand which must take place prior to His return? All, sciota, all.
In or around 1070 A.D. the earth was destroyed by fire? All graves were opened and all mankind, sans believers, stood before the great white throne? The New City Jerusalem descended out of heaven and landed on the earth, being around 1,400 miles by 1,400 miles? How did we miss it? How come only the Preterists saw it? If only the Preterists saw it how could all the kings of the earth bring their blessings into that city? Did they get the Preterists to do it for them since only they knew where that city is?
Sciotamicks, preterism calls for the complete suspension of a rationale mind.
That is to say full preterism ... Full futurism is in error as well in my opinion. Both are extremes on the on the scale of prophetic hermeneutics. I agree that sciotamicks is far in left field but then you have others like mike who are far in right field, and they only come together in the false doctrine of eternal torture ... Go figure. If you notice, that is the reason mike has not posted in sciotamicks thread concerning the millinium, even though he is diametrically opposed to that theory, he has won an help meet in Sciotamicks in struggling against the word of reconciliation so he will not debate him on the matters of prophecy. I suppose Mike believes that doctrine of eternal torture is more important than the resurrection and the return of Christ. Priorities ... My main point though is that the truth usually falls between two extremes. I dont believe that sciotamicks is wrong on every single point, only that he is absolutely incapable of understanding portents or the foreshadowing of events in the ancient world.
I disagree wholeheartedly ... The scripture says that Jesus called Him peter(Petra), because he said Jesus was messiah ... And it is the fact the is the messiah that he will build his church on. You believe a lie ...
Jesus is the rock, he is the cap stone made the corner stone, he is the stumbling block of Israel, he is the rock cut out of the mountain without hands and cast at the feet of the colossus of Nebuchadnezzar's dream .. Christ is the rock on which we build our house and on which we rest our faith. Peter was merely a man like you and I and he was less the the apostle Paul in authority. He never rebuked Paul, but he stood rebuke by Paul for sinning twice, and once after God had already told him not to do it. And he denied Christ three times ... He was not the first Pope.
That interpretation just doesn't make sense. You are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my church.
That interpretation just doesn't make sense. You are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my church.
Yeah sounds like he's talking to himself.
It could also be that "upon this rock" is the declaration made by Peter that "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God" that Christ built His church on. It is on that truth it has as its foundation.
That interpretation just doesn't make sense. You are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my church.
Yeah sounds like he's talking to himself.
As i understand it, it is the other way around. If Christ had meant that he was building his church on Simon Peter, he would have said ...
"... And on you i will build my church."
He was talking to Simon Peter when he said that, "on this rock" ...
Mat 16:15-18
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Why did he tell Simon he was to be called Peter? Because the spirit of God had revealed to him that Jesus was the Christ and the messiah, the son God. Why did he tell Simon Peter "upon this rock", instead of "upon you"? because it was not on Simon Peter that he would build his church, but on the understanding which the spirit had Given Simon Peter that Jesus was the Christ, the son of God.
So are you a follower of Simon Peter or of Christ? Does being Christian mean that you believe that Simon is the Christ, or the Jesus is the Christ?
Dan 2:45
Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
Eph 2:20-22
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In(on) whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple(the church) in the Lord: In(on) whom ye also are builded together for an habitation(the church) of God through the Spirit.
Is Christ the rock carved out of the mountain without hands or is it Peter? Is Christ the the corner stone on which we are built together for an habitation of God(the church), or is it Simon Peter? Can you read and believe what the bible says, or are you only able to believe what the traditions of men tell you?
What is the foundation on which Christianity does lay, Christ or Simon Peter? Is it Peteranity or Christianity? Christ is the head of the church, not peter, peter is no more or less a Christian than any of us ... The Papacy and the system of the clergy is a creation of men to control the laity. It is not what Christ intended ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 11-24-2009 at 01:10 PM..
Rev 22 is pretty strict about Heaven my friends...believe it or not, there are those that are unsaved outside of it...but alas, many have failed in accepting that.
Not really talking about heaven. The New City Jerusalem comes down out of heaven and lands on the earth:
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and
shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a
stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; And had a
wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve
angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve
tribes of the children of Israel: On the east three gates; on the north
three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. And
the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the
twelve apostles of the Lamb. And he that talked with me had a golden
reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth:
and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The
length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. And he measured
the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the
measure of a man, that is, of the angel. And the building of the wall of it
was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. And the
foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of
precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire;
the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; The fifth, sardonyx; the
sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a
topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an
amethyst. And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate
was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were
transparent glass. And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty
and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun,
neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and
the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved
shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory
and honour into it.
(Revelation 21:10-24 KJV)
It could also be that "upon this rock" is the declaration made by Peter that "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God" that Christ built His church on. It is on that truth it has as its foundation.
That also doesn't make sense, he didn't rename Simon's statement, he renamed Simon, Rock, and on this Rock, I will build my church. And going further, how can a statement, decide whats good and bad. How can you give the keys of heaven, to a statement.
In as i understand it, it is the other way around. If Christ had meant that he was building his church on Simon Peter, he would have said ...
"... And on you i will build my church."
He was talking to Simon Peter when he said that.
Mat 16:15-18
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Why did he tell Simon he was to be called Peter? Because the spirit of God had revealed to him that Jesus was the Christ and the messiah, the son God. Why did he tell Simon Peter "upon this rock", instead of "upon you"? because it was not on Simon Peter that he would build his church, but on the understanding which the spirit had Given him that Jesus was the Christ, the son of God.
So are you a follower of Simon Peter or of Christ? Does being Christian mean that you believe that Simon is the Christ, or the Jesus is the Christ?
What is the foundation on which Christianity does lay, Christ or Simon Peter? Is it Peteranity or Christianity?
Its christianity. Duh, but God knew that we people needed an earthly leader. Without it, you got the thousands of protestant churches we have today. Christ always talked about being one. that doesn't seem like being ONE to me
Its christianity. Duh, but God knew that we people needed an earthly leader. Without it, you got the thousands of protestant churches we have today. Christ always talked about being one. that doesn't seem like being ONE to me
I will post this part of my post again as you obviously missed my edit ...
Dan 2:45
Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
Eph 2:20-22
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In(on) whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple(the church) in the Lord: In(on) whom ye also are builded together for an habitation(the church) of God through the Spirit.
Is Christ the rock carved out of the mountain without hands or is it Peter? Is Christ the the corner stone on which we are built together for an habitation of God(the church), or is it Simon Peter? Can you read and believe what the bible says, or are you only able to believe what the traditions of men tell you?
Christ is the head of the church, not peter, peter is no more or less a Christian than any of us ... The Papacy and the system of the clergy is a creation of men to control the laity. It is not what Christ intended ...
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