The false doctrine of Eternal Torment draws people away from Christianity. (hell, woman)
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Eternal Torment is man's doctrine, not God's Word.
God's Word says that the only way people can come unto Him is if He draws them...He doesn't say that the way to Him is by teaching people that if they aren't saved, they will forever suffer torrential waves of burning fire that will never end.....
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:
Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
......Not my God...not the God that I know and love. He wouldn't create people only for the purpose of having them suffer burning torment for all eternity, He just wouldn't. That isn't God our Creator...that is a monster!
False teachers actually think that it is important to tell people they will burn forever so that they will turn to the Lord. They think it depends on them - forgetting that no man comes unto Jesus unless the Father draws him. The reality is the opposite is true - when people hear that they are going to burn forever they seek immediate and cheap salvation (like the OSAS group or the UR group), and the false comfort of knowing that their children will not burn if they just say the sinners prayer.
These two groups RUN! from the doctrine of Eternal Torment...and why not!...anyone would!...but the problem here is they also RUN! from the truth as well. It is sad as hell! that this docrine has severed...and for some, for good!...the intimate relationship they could be having with their Creator otherwise.
The fact is, is God absolutely does not say, anywhere! that all unsaved people will suffer eternal damnation...He says the Beast, the false prophet, and the devil will be tormented day and night..not EVERYONE! who isn't saved...but only those who worshipped the Beast and had his mark: "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Rev.20:10)
Will all people be saved? NO.
So will ALL! those who die unsaved ALL! be Eternally Tormented? NO.
What will be the destiny of most of the unsaved? ANNIHILATION. <<<THAT! is mercy!...THAT! is justice!...THAT! is fair!
REPENT or PARISH! <<Dissolve!
We cannot scare people into believing. It all begins with the Father - not our preaching. The very thought of a Monster God who creates some people for no other purpose than to live, die and burn forever drives people away from Christianity.
So will ALL! those who die unsaved ALL! be Eternally Tormented? NO.
What will be the destiny of most of the unsaved? ANNIHILATION. <<<THAT! is mercy!...THAT! is justice!...THAT! is fair!
REPENT or PARISH! <<Dissolve!
Verna, I want to know what is inside of you. What your thoughts are. If it is your loved one, your child, your grandchild who is dissolved.... will you still say
Quote:
"THAT! is justice!....THAT! is fair!"
Will your love for them end?
Love NEVER ends.
What will happen to your love for them?
Will it too... dissolve along with them?
Can you imagine your love for them ending...?
Eternal Torment is man's doctrine, not God's Word.
God's Word says that the only way people can come unto Him is if He draws them...He doesn't say that the way to Him is by teaching people that if they aren't saved, they will forever suffer torrential waves of burning fire that will never end.....
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:
Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
......Not my God...not the God that I know and love. He wouldn't create people only for the purpose of having them suffer burning torment for all eternity, He just wouldn't. That isn't God our Creator...that is a monster!
False teachers actually think that it is important to tell people they will burn forever so that they will turn to the Lord. They think it depends on them - forgetting that no man comes unto Jesus unless the Father draws him. The reality is the opposite is true - when people hear that they are going to burn forever they seek immediate and cheap salvation (like the OSAS group or the UR group), and the false comfort of knowing that their children will not burn if they just say the sinners prayer.
These two groups RUN! from the doctrine of Eternal Torment...and why not!...anyone would!...but the problem here is they also RUN! from the truth as well. It is sad as hell! that this docrine has severed...and for some, for good!...the intimate relationship they could be having with their Creator otherwise.
The fact is, is God absolutely does not say, anywhere! that all unsaved people will suffer eternal damnation...He says the Beast, the false prophet, and the devil will be tormented day and night..not EVERYONE! who isn't saved...but only those who worshipped the Beast and had his mark: "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Rev.20:10)
Will all people be saved? NO.
So will ALL! those who die unsaved ALL! be Eternally Tormented? NO.
What will be the destiny of most of the unsaved? ANNIHILATION. <<<THAT! is mercy!...THAT! is justice!...THAT! is fair!
REPENT or PARISH! <<Dissolve!
We cannot scare people into believing. It all begins with the Father - not our preaching. The very thought of a Monster God who creates some people for no other purpose than to live, die and burn forever drives people away from Christianity.
In Christ,
Verna.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow.
Verna, I want to know what is inside of you. What your thoughts are. If it is your loved one, your child, your grandchild who is dissolved.... will you still say
Will your love for them end?
Love NEVER ends.
What will happen to your love for them?
Will it too... dissolve along with them?
Can you imagine your love for them ending...?
Let's talk about it, Verna.
Dear .sparrow...You ask what is inside of me? The Spirit of Christ....no fear of death, "To be absent from the body, is to be present with the LORD."...and I truly look at death this way...not that I don't love life, because I do...not that I wouldn't be scared to death those final seconds if I saw it coming, because I would.
I'm doing all I can do to inform my loved ones of the love of God while I am living and breathing...and I am an example for them of the life that is lived for Him. I don't just talk the talk, but I walk the walk...my children call me blessed...my parents call me blessed...my friends call me blessed. I cannot be responsible for them more than teaching them and showing them by my words and my lifestyle what Godliness is...it is all I can do, what I am doing. I can do no more. They are responsible for themselves, and I understand and accept this fact. It is the Word of God, and I walk in it sparrow...it just is what it is...and I cannot change any of it.
Will my love for them end...? Are you serious? Absolutely not!
What will happen to my love for them when they dissolve...? Again sparrow, what a queston to ask a woman who gave birth to a beautiful daughter whom I love with all of my heart and more! who has grown to love me more than anything in the world...who has given me a beautiful granddaughter that I cherish and adore! I will die...I pray before they do. I will not know if I will ever see them again after that...in heaven. I haven't been there yet, and no one has come back from heaven to tell me how it all works out...so...how can I spend time worring about something that I cannot do anything about? I'm doing all I can do before the LORD calls me home...getting my soul right with God...proclaiming to all who will listen the truth of His Word...<<and that includes my loved ones.
...and upon saying all of this I must say that the questions that you ask of me sparrow...well...they really support what I assert as being true. The subject of this thread is how Eternal Torment draws people away from Christianity. And it does. Just look at your questions of me...here is all the proof one needs to support my topic...the false doctrine of Eternal Torment has totally drawn you away from what is truly important...and that is that not all men will be saved...many will die unrepentant and unsaved..having rejected Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross....and they will not suffer Eternal Torment...in His mercy they will be resurrected unto judgement one final time, and then they will be punished and then they will perish, forever...soul dead. and that is mercy...far better than burning eternally....just like when we sleep...we know nothing...it is blank...so it will be for them as well. and that is mercy. Think about it...
Will my love for them end...? Are you serious? Absolutely not!
What will happen to my love for them when they dissolve...? Again sparrow, what a queston to ask a woman who gave birth to a beautiful daughter whom I love with all of my heart and more! who has grown to love me more than anything in the world...who has given me a beautiful granddaughter that I cherish and adore!
But if they are dissolved, then how will your love for them go on... if they no longer exist? Ask yourself this in your heart, Verna.
Why would God allow you TO LOVE and with such a BEAUTIFUL LOVE and then you think that He would let this love SLIP from you.....? Why do you think it says "LOVE never ends" What do you think "Love conquers all" means?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry
I will die...I pray before they do. I will not know if I will ever see them again after that..
Verna, I can tell you I have absolute peace in my heart. I have confidence that Jesus Christ IS (not CAN BE) the saviour of all mankind. I have suffered much in grief and He delievered me from that grief and I CAN tell you that there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that I WILL see my departed loved ones again. It was a long road and He met me and carried me the rest of the way. I have no doubt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry
...and upon saying all of this I must say that the questions that you ask of me sparrow...well...they really support what I assert as being true. The subject of this thread is how Eternal Torment draws people away from Christianity. And it does. Just look at your questions of me...here is all the proof one needs to support my topic...the false doctrine of Eternal Torment has totally drawn you away from what is truly important...and that is that not all men will be saved...
I have to say this makes no sense to me, Verna. "Here is all the proof one needs" to support your topic? Me asking how you would feel if your loved ones were as you put it "dissolved" and me asking where your love for them would go if they were? That is all the proof one needs? My questions to you?
What is truly important? You say what is truly important is that "not all men are saved." ???
What is truly important is that LOVE conquers all.
That JEsus is the saviour of ALL mankind.
Not potential saviour.
IS SAVIOUR.
Verna... I am only asking you these things because I desire for you to have FULL PEACE in your heart. If you do not know if you will ever see your beloved daughter and granddaughter again... Verna... how can you possibly have FULL PEACE in your heart? There is a much greater and much more beautiful level of peace you can have in your heart. Verna, you can TRUST GOD with your family. He is the Good Shepherd, and not ONE Will be lost. And it has NOTHING to do with what YOU have done, or what you DO, or HOW MUCH you "witness". It has nothing to do with you. It has nothing to do with ME. IT has everything to do with God.
It is FINISHED.
Believe it!
Eternal Torment is man's doctrine, not God's Word.
God's Word says that the only way people can come unto Him is if He draws them...He doesn't say that the way to Him is by teaching people that if they aren't saved, they will forever suffer torrential waves of burning fire that will never end.....
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:
Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
......Not my God...not the God that I know and love. He wouldn't create people only for the purpose of having them suffer burning torment for all eternity, He just wouldn't. That isn't God our Creator...that is a monster!
False teachers actually think that it is important to tell people they will burn forever so that they will turn to the Lord. They think it depends on them - forgetting that no man comes unto Jesus unless the Father draws him. The reality is the opposite is true - when people hear that they are going to burn forever they seek immediate and cheap salvation (like the OSAS group or the UR group), and the false comfort of knowing that their children will not burn if they just say the sinners prayer.
These two groups RUN! from the doctrine of Eternal Torment...and why not!...anyone would!...but the problem here is they also RUN! from the truth as well. It is sad as hell! that this docrine has severed...and for some, for good!...the intimate relationship they could be having with their Creator otherwise.
The fact is, is God absolutely does not say, anywhere! that all unsaved people will suffer eternal damnation...He says the Beast, the false prophet, and the devil will be tormented day and night..not EVERYONE! who isn't saved...but only those who worshipped the Beast and had his mark: "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Rev.20:10)
Will all people be saved? NO.
So will ALL! those who die unsaved ALL! be Eternally Tormented? NO.
What will be the destiny of most of the unsaved? ANNIHILATION. <<<THAT! is mercy!...THAT! is justice!...THAT! is fair!
REPENT or PARISH! <<Dissolve!
We cannot scare people into believing. It all begins with the Father - not our preaching. The very thought of a Monster God who creates some people for no other purpose than to live, die and burn forever drives people away from Christianity.
In Christ,
Verna.
Finally something we can agree on Verna!! Not the annihilation part, but the part that God is not the monster of ET! Now why not take it a step further and study up on Universal Reconciliation.....it's the only belief that makes sense out of a senseless ET or annihilation belief. It's all about love Verna, and even though I don't agree with annihilation I feel it is much more compassionate than the belief in ET. I suppose if I had never heard of UR then I would probably have gone with the belief of annihilation because I was quickly moving away from the belief in some fiery eternal hell. God bless you Verna, I know you mean well.
Dear .sparrow...You ask what is inside of me? The Spirit of Christ....no fear of death, "To be absent from the body, is to be present with the LORD."...and I truly look at death this way...not that I don't love life, because I do...not that I wouldn't be scared to death those final seconds if I saw it coming, because I would.
I'm doing all I can do to inform my loved ones of the love of God while I am living and breathing...and I am an example for them of the life that is lived for Him. I don't just talk the talk, but I walk the walk...my children call me blessed...my parents call me blessed...my friends call me blessed. I cannot be responsible for them more than teaching them and showing them by my words and my lifestyle what Godliness is...it is all I can do, what I am doing. I can do no more. They are responsible for themselves, and I understand and accept this fact. It is the Word of God, and I walk in it sparrow...it just is what it is...and I cannot change any of it.
Will my love for them end...? Are you serious? Absolutely not!
What will happen to my love for them when they dissolve...? Again sparrow, what a queston to ask a woman who gave birth to a beautiful daughter whom I love with all of my heart and more! who has grown to love me more than anything in the world...who has given me a beautiful granddaughter that I cherish and adore! I will die...I pray before they do. I will not know if I will ever see them again after that...in heaven. I haven't been there yet, and no one has come back from heaven to tell me how it all works out...so...how can I spend time worring about something that I cannot do anything about? I'm doing all I can do before the LORD calls me home...getting my soul right with God...proclaiming to all who will listen the truth of His Word...<<and that includes my loved ones.
...and upon saying all of this I must say that the questions that you ask of me sparrow...well...they really support what I assert as being true. The subject of this thread is how Eternal Torment draws people away from Christianity. And it does. Just look at your questions of me...here is all the proof one needs to support my topic...the false doctrine of Eternal Torment has totally drawn you away from what is truly important...and that is that not all men will be saved...many will die unrepentant and unsaved..having rejected Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross....and they will not suffer Eternal Torment...in His mercy they will be resurrected unto judgement one final time, and then they will be punished and then they will perish, forever...soul dead. and that is mercy...far better than burning eternally....just like when we sleep...we know nothing...it is blank...so it will be for them as well. and that is mercy. Think about it...
God Bless you sparrow.
In Christ's love,
Verna.
Verna,
I agree with a lot of your post .... one of the things I do not agree with is your perception of what resurrection is...... we are told in Corinthians that the sowing is soulish and resurrection is spiritual, sowing is corrupt and being raised is incorruptible
1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
My husb. has a friend who is southern baptist and he takes the bible very,I mean VERY, literally!
He was talking to him today about gay ppl,(his friend brought up the subject about a catholic gay priest being promoted),and his friend said that he thought society should do what the bible says it should do about gay ppl...STONE them to death!!!
...this is horrific! I truly hope he is in the minority of SB's with this type of thinking. (?) Idk,bc I don't know very many.I can tolerate them about as much as I can republicans.
I thought Jesus came to demonstrate that we should hate the sin but love the sinner,and that we should not follow the nonsense of the OT.This is horrific type thinking and I can't believe anyone could still think this way.very sad.
My husb. has a friend who is southern baptist and he takes the bible very,I mean VERY, literally!
He was talking to him today about gay ppl,(his friend brought up the subject about a catholic gay priest being promoted),and his friend said that he thought society should do what the bible says it should do about gay ppl...STONE them to death!!!
...this is horrific! I truly hope he is in the minority of SB's with this type of thinking. (?) Idk,bc I don't know very many.I can tolerate them about as much as I can republicans.
I thought Jesus came to demonstrate that we should hate the sin but love the sinner,and that we should not follow the nonsense of the OT.This is horrific type thinking and I can't believe anyone could still think this way.very sad.
Maybe your husband's friend should join the forum here.. it might do him some good!..
In Matthew 24: 3-5....``Tell us when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of your coming, end the end of the world?....and JESUS answered and said unto him. take heed that no man deceive you.....for many shall come IN MY NAME, saying I am Christ, and shall deceive many....verse 10-13....and then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another and shall hate one another....and the false prophet shall rise and deceive many... and because iniquity shall abound the love of many shall wax cold ... but he that shall endure to the end , the same shall be saved``...... Repeat; ..``HE THAT SHALL ENDURE TO THE END ,THE SAME, SHALL BE SAVED``......That means if you do not endure to the end you will be lost to the Lord, which means eternal torment for your spirit ...... so here in the doctrine words of the saviour Jesus Christ is eternal lost people which contridicts the Universal reconiciliation ideas that all souls will be saved to God and Jesus is false doctrine, which says that Universalism is one of the false prophet who will rise and deceive many.........People only get saved by being obedient to the doctrine of Jesus Christ through his Word in the Bible , where people of UR take the short cut that leads to no interest in the saviour Jesus because all are reconciled to God anyway, which is a betrayal of pure truth......
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