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Oh, the gist of what I was trying to get at is that Christianity has remained consistent in one thing - division. The Christian world of today, when you look at it, is really no different that the Christian world of 500 years ago, 1,000 years ago or 2,000 years ago.
Depends on what you consider a division.
If it is believing that Christ is God in the Flesh, 1.8 Billion will not disagree with you. If it is having to confess with your mouth and heart that Christ is your saviour, 1.8 Billion will not be divided on the subject.
If it is the belief in the doctrine of the Trinity, 1.8 Billion will agree.
So, as I see it, we are not divided at all.
Yes there are some tenets that are left to better interpretation, however, the core fundamental doctrines of the faith, are in unity. Not division.
You must remember, these numbers do not include JW, Mormon, Universalists, or any other sect that denies these core fundamentals.
Personally and corporately, these are not sects of Christianity, but stand outside of the church.
Oh, the gist of what I was trying to get at is that Christianity has remained consistent in one thing - division. The Christian world of today, when you look at it, is really no different that the Christian world of 500 years ago, 1,000 years ago or 2,000 years ago.
Babylon. This is the land of confusion and not enough love to go around.
My belief in The Restitution of All Things is the only reason I didn't abandon the faith. There is WAY too much division, nonsense, chaos, blindness (mostly in the evangelical camp), evil, perversion, iciness (especially when you do not believe EXACTLY what those around you believe), robotic, foolishness for me to even consider that even 1% of the population TRULY knows who God is and knows what he is up to.
I gave up trying to be 100% right and started loving. That is all you can do.
(if even 1% of the population of this planet is right then we have a problem with this verse---I figure these guys are happy)
Revelation 5:13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"
Last edited by herefornow; 06-01-2010 at 03:37 PM..
this forum about Jesus may be entertaining, and you may not know this Jesus, but He knows you, and he love you very much, and he has a plan just for you, he is not pushy, he just waits for you to talk to him........
this forum about Jesus may be entertaining, and you may not know this Jesus, but He knows you, and he love you very much, and he has a plan just for you, he is not pushy, he just waits for you to talk to him........
One thing I know about you, hljc. You are always kind.
I am no longer a believer (to which I am intensely grateful) but nonetheless, as a history buff (I LOVE perspective), religion (and how it has shaped history) is still a fasinating subject to me. I love to read about the world in which New Testament Judaism and the offshoot religion of Christianity formed. I love to read church history and learn about how the councils and the subsequent powerful church determined orthodoxy.
One thing is evident, even from the earliest days of Christianity when it was still within the region it started in and its immediate surroundings, is that it has ALWAYS been a religion with multiple and often conflicting schools of thought. This forum has proven that NOTHING has changed down to the very subject of "who WAS/IS Jesus?" This fundamental question cannot even be settled even 2,000 years later. Then there is the question about WHO will be saved when all is said and done and whether or not Jesus came back already or is still yet to return.
It is certainly an entertaining forum. I sit amazed at times at the diversity of thoughts. There are gnostic Christians, trinitarian Christians, Arian Christians, Preterist Christians, futurist Christians, fundamentalist Christians, liberal Christians, literalist Christians, "I could care less what others believe" Christians, I DO care what others believe" Christians, Unitarian christians, hellfire and brimstone Christians, Saturday worship christians, Sunday worship Christians, gay Christians, mystic Christians all here speaking AT each other. The tradition of MANY Christianities continues 2,000 years later. Makes for an interesting show to tell you the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood
The diversity of thought is universal among all human beings and indeed it is quite interesting.
Indeed, diversity and difference of opinion is human nature regardless of the subject matter. That is why i like the Indian proverb of the elephant and the blind men ...
Quote:
THE BLIND MEN AND THE ELEPHANT
John Godfrey Saxe's ( 1816-1887) version of the famous Indian legend
It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.
The First approach'd the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"
The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, -"Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"
The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"
The Fourth reached out his eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he,
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"
The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"
The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Then, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"
And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!
MORAL.
So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean, And prate about an Elephant Not one of them has seen!
This is not just common to Christianity, but to all forms of religion, philosophy, science, politics and even history ...
That is why i study as many different ideological diversions of any particular subject as possible, in order to try and see the big picture ...
That is why i believe it is so important to realize that we might be wrong about what ever it is we think that we might be so right about ...
Often when various people are in disagreement, the truth can be found somewhere in the middle of their apparently contrary and divergent perspectives.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 06-01-2010 at 04:16 PM..
indeed, diversity and difference of opinion is human nature regardless of the subject matter. That is why i like the indian proverb of the elephant and the blind men ...
This is not just common to christianity, but to all forms of religion, philosophy, science, politics and even history ...
That is why i study as many different ideological diversions of any particular subject as possible,in order to try and see the big picture ...
That is why i believe it is so important to realize that we might be wrong about what ever it is we think that we might be so right about ...
If it is believing that Christ is God in the Flesh, 1.8 Billion will not disagree with you. If it is having to confess with your mouth and heart that Christ is your saviour, 1.8 Billion will not be divided on the subject.
If it is the belief in the doctrine of the Trinity, 1.8 Billion will agree.
So, as I see it, we are not divided at all.
Yes there are some tenets that are left to better interpretation, however, the core fundamental doctrines of the faith, are in unity. Not division.
You must remember, these numbers do not include JW, Mormon, Universalists, or any other sect that denies these core fundamentals.
Personally and corporately, these are not sects of Christianity, but stand outside of the church.
Interesting statistics ...
And everyone knows that the popular opinion is always the right one ...
Indeed, diversity and difference of opinion is human nature regardless of the subject matter. That is why i like the Indian proverb of the elephant and the blind men ...
This is not just common to Christianity, but to all forms of religion, philosophy, science, politics and even history ...
That is why i study as many different ideological diversions of any particular subject as possible, in order to try and see the big picture ...
That is why i believe it is so important to realize that we might be wrong about what ever it is we think that we might be so right about ...
Often times when various people are in disagreement, the truth can be found somewhere in the middle of their apparently contrary and divergent perspectives.
Love it! There seems to be a lot of seeing the unseen.
If it is believing that Christ is God in the Flesh, 1.8 Billion will not disagree with you. If it is having to confess with your mouth and heart that Christ is your saviour, 1.8 Billion will not be divided on the subject.
If it is the belief in the doctrine of the Trinity, 1.8 Billion will agree.
Actually these are largely Evangelical perspectives on the Gospel. Many other Christians don't quite think of it in those terms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks
So, as I see it, we are not divided at all.
I'm a Christian and I disagree with all three of those articles of faith. While there are certainly a limited number of unifying ideologies in Christianity, you've not hit on them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks
Yes there are some tenets that are left to better interpretation, however, the core fundamental doctrines of the faith, are in unity. Not division.
According to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks
You must remember, these numbers do not include JW, Mormon, Universalists, or any other sect that denies these core fundamentals.
And yet still identify themselves as Christians (for the most part). You're leaving out a number of others as well. In the end, it's not your prerogative (as an Evangelical or as an individual) to draw the boundaries of Christianity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks
Personally and corporately, these are not sects of Christianity, but stand outside of the church.
But in many ways they stand much closer to biblical Christianity than Evangelical Christianity. What you're doing is trying to assert unity by asserting that those who disagree with you aren't a part of the group anyway. That priority is actually what creates and defines sectarianism. It's quite ironic, but the people who label others as sects are the people who define their own traditions as sects. You're also inventing, ad hoc, these "core doctrines," and deciding, rather arbitrarily, which ones make you Christian and which ones don't. See Mark 9:38-41 for this attitude among Jesus' disciples.
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